Educating Shirley

[cowman]

Raymond: If we could just maybe get someone in who actually gave a rip about the country instead of their wallet it might help. A statesman if you will?
It would be helpful to have a politician who looked out for the whole country instead of one or two provinces. Now Paul Martin says he is that person and I hope he is. Right now he is getting painted with a pretty black brush that really is Chretiens brush? He had to know these things were going on but what can you do? I mean he belonged to the liberal party and he basically had to go with the flow? The important thing is he needs to make some real changes and he needs to do it NOW! If he continues with business as usual, what have we gained? Might as well have kept old Jean?
There is something drastically wrong with this country! I don't know what it is...but I do know something is really really wrong?
We need a real leader! A man with vision and integrity! I don't know if Paul Martin is that man?

[ivbinconned]

To put what I was trying to say another way....when you live in a glass house, one should refrain from throwing stones.
Any Americans who may have been listening to the anti American drivel that the likes of the CBC has been pumping out for decades could well assume that all of Canada views them with contempt.
Why should they buy from us when the loudest voices they hear are the anti American elites in Toronto and Ottawa whos paychecks do not depend on exports!!
Any American media personality could come up here and do a comedy "Talking to Canadians" and make us look like dumb hicks too.
I don't know Boone what the productivity comparisons look like but I do know that 20 years ago Canadaian debt per capita was 3 times higher than Americans, Canadian provincial governments and industry owed US banks plenty. We went there because Canadian Banks were deaf to our wishes. Even anti US, NDP provincial governments went to New York looking for cash.
This I believe had an impact on the value of our dollar too.

[johnboy555]

Listen you guys and girls..........Canada has mad cow, it's a Canadian problem, US slams border..................US has mad cow {sure blame canada, we only like trade millions of cattle between us} now it becomes a north american problem......................COME ON............Darn rights i blame the Americans....................and as far as the japps go, keep eating your cats and dogs like that restarant in Edmonton.................I can be a protectionist too................Japan can keep their sony and hondas

[cowman]

Ivebinconned: What country has always stood with the US? Gone along with just about all their ideas? Backed them up on all their trade dealings? Is it not Canada?
Would you be happy if the CBC was scrapped and replaced with a Fox or CNN? If you want to see blatant propaganda...
Do you think it is right that your friend and neighbor bullies you because you wouldn't go along with his criminal activities? Which is what the invasion of Iraq was? Who do you think is mopping up their last little "adventure" in Aghafistan? Do you think it would help if we sent some soldiers to get killed in Iraq too?
While it is true George Bush got his poodle Tony Blair to follow him in his slaughter of Iraq, why does that mean we need to? Were Germany and France and the rest of the world wrong when they condemned a US invasion of Iraq? How was Hitlers invasion of Poland any different than the American invasion?

[raymondb]

Cowman-seeing as I have those memory lapse moments or as my wife tells me"seniors moments" , I do not recall the Polish dictator slaughtering, torturing,and humiliating any and all that opposed him and being real religious as Saddam. The Americans and British may have been wrong about weapons of mass destruction but there are probably less innocent people being hurt in Irag today than there was under Saddam. As far as the French and the Germans-who do you think was siphoning oil out of Irag? Who do you thing supplied all the "oil making and producing machinery? I do not like what the Amewricans are doing BUT I definately would not compare Bush with Hitler. That in my senior mind is way out of line.

[johnboy555]

You tell em raymond

[ivbinconned]

Cowman I can't believe you wrote that!

Oh yes....Canada good...U.S. bad. My point in all posts is that you should not throw stones when you live in a glass house!

Here is what David Frum recently wrote...
Are French Quebeckers a “minority” in the sense that African-Americans are a minority? Although French Quebeckers constitute only about 20% of the Canadian population, they number some 80% of the population in the country’s second-largest province — and within the borders of that province, they exert their power with the uninhibited enthusiasm of an untrammeled majority.

It is illegal to post an English-language sign in the province of Quebec. A Quebecker has held the prime ministership of Canada for all but 18 months of the past 36 years. And over those same 36 years, Quebec has received C$201 billion more from the federal Treasury than it has paid in. (Over those same years, the province of Alberta paid in $167 billion more than it received back.)…

I am not proud of the way my country runs its affairs and I get no therapy over it (like some do) by constantly bashing the Americans for protecting and defending their interests the way we wish our government would defend ours.

When did I ever say I would rather have Fox News or CNN replace the CBC. In regards to that issue all I have ever wrote is that I wish I had the choice. Instead of being told what I can watch by the CRTC and the Ottawa elites. You can not develope disernment if you are always fed from the same source.

Canada has not always supported the U.S.!Remember Cuba and the American assets that Canadian companys were able to take over free of charge in Cuba.

Is it not true that Gene Kretan has a French son in law who had lucrative bussiness dealings with Sadamm...possibly in violation of UN resolutions??

NO, we have plenty of corruption right here at home and we would be wise to straighten up out own mess before we start lecturing the Americans and G.B. on how to react to 9-11 and a dozen other attacts over the years.

Of one thing you can be sure George Bush and his staff will not be caught calling even Gene Kretan a moron.

[ivbinconned]

For all you Bush bashers...

You know, it is easy to forget the 'promises' that Bill and Hillary
made while in office. It strikes home when it is listed like this:

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured
1000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.
BUSH COVERED IT!

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military
personnel; Clinton said that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
BUSH COVERED IT!


After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19
and injured 200 U.S. military personnel; Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.
BUSH COVERED IT!

After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224
and injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible! would be hunted
down and punished.
BUSH COVERED IT!

After! the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39
U.S. sailors; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.
BUSH COVERED IT!

Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 3,000 people in New
York and Washington, D.C. that are now dead would be alive today.
BUSH TOLD THOSE FIREMAN -- THEY WOULD HEAR US TOO!

And, now that Bush is taking action to bring these people to justice,
we have Democrats charging him with being a war monger...

AN INTERESTING QUESTION: This question was raised on a Philly radio
call-in show. Without casting stones, it is a legitimate question. there are two
men, both extremely wealthy. One develops relatively cheap software and gives
billions of dollars to charity. The other sponsors terrorism. That being
the case, why was it that the Clinton administration spent more money chasing down
Bill Gates over the past eight years than Osama bin Laden?

THINK ABOUT IT!
It is a strange turn of events. Hillary gets $8 Million for her
forthcoming memoir. Bill gets about $12 Million for his memoir yet to be written.
This from two people who have spent the past 8 years being unable to recall
anything about past events while under oath!


Today in Canada we have a former and current P.M. who are acting like Sargent Shultz in Hogans Hero's...
I see nothing...
I hear nothing...
I know nothing...

[cowman]

Maybe I should just let this one lie...however...the fact is America and Britain did attack a sovereign nation with absolutely no provocation. Violated international law? Now however you cut it that has to be a war crime? Iraq did not have WMD and not only has Hans Blix stated that(and did pre-war) America knew that but so has the American Kay. The plans for this invasion were drawn up long before 911.
The point that Saddam was a brutal dictator is not valid. There are lots of brutal dictators and America put a lot of into power...including Saddam?
Osama binladen was a CIA backed freedom fighter/terrorist. The Bin Laden family and the Bush family are old friends and business partners!
The agony of the Iraq people continues. The Americans intend to pull out in June and leave the country in utter chaos. Then the true bloodbath will begin as civil war takes over the country. In the end there will be a fundalmentalist Islamic government in place that will rule with an iron fist and a great hate for America.
So what will have been accomplished by Bushs little adventures? Aghganistan is now back in the hands of the warlords with a puppet in place in Kabul. The fields are once again full of poppies for the drug trade. Bush got rid of the Taliban so now the drug lords are back in business. Osama continues to operate and continues to kill American soldiers in Iraq.
We need to realize we can not defeat an Osama bin Laden, because he is a true believer! Not in it for the money or glory or power but because he actually believes in a religion that will not tolerate the west. We can kill him but there are several thousands ready to take his place who also are true believers? How many of us are true believers? How many of us would sacrifice our lives for a cause? Very few if any?
Oh and Raymond the propaganda Dr. Goebbels used in his justification for attacking Poland was that a brutal Polish government was repressing German Nationals and actually attacking/killing Germans! Check your history? Which I would say was very similar to the totally unfounded charge of WMD and the lie that Saddam was behind 911? Propaganda? Remember in the first Gulf war when the little Kuwaiti girl was testifying about the Iraq soldiers throwing the babies out of the incubaters? Never happened...more pure propaganda to fool the American people.

[ivbinconned]

Cowman...me thinks you watch to much of the left CNN, CBC, etc.

Hans Blix has no credability either. The UN would now like the US to get involved in Hati, even with out a UN resolution.

As for evidence not found, maybe there isn't any...yet. I do know that given a 6 month head start I could hide considerable evidence on my farm that they would be hard pressed to find, let alone a whole country.

The fact that the Bush's and Osama once did business together and was once supported by the U.S.has nothing to do with the fact that this relationship has changed and now has to be delt with.

What would you have him do...nothing! Like Bill Clinton ??

Getting back to my point...all politiians are corrupt...ours too. So lets stop throwing stones at their glass house when ours is just as vulnerable, there is no milage in that.

We were on the subject of beef. And canada signed onto the protocall of banning beef for 7 years from any country who had a case of BSE. So we did it to the Japanese and they are giving us some of our own medicine back.

It is the classic case of what goes around comes around.

Have a good spring!

[raymondb]

Cowman--The Polish Leaders were NOT torturing their people --Saddam was. Perhaps YOU should check history and check what I said before you respond in the way you did.

[cowman]

But raymond, Dr. Goebbels said the Polish government was actually oppressing and murdering Germananic Polish citizens? The Poles attacked a border outpost(Completely false and fake setup for sure) and that was the propoganda used to invade Poland? Propaganda is used by all countries to spin it how they want it...including the US and yes even Canada! We need to read between the lines? Propoganda is what they want you to see not neccessarily reality?
Ivebinconned: I do agree with you that our government is very two faced on this whole beef issue,but I don't see why it is necessary to do all the wrong things just to get the border open? Are all our principals, values and morals to be sold for a few cents on our cattle? Why bother having a country at all? We could just let the US run us like a branch company? Why bother with a Canadian social safety net, why bother sending representatives to the world government, why have our own values?
I don't know why you would say Bill Clinton never did anything? Why he bombed somebody everytime he got caught with his pants down, including Saddam!lol
Make no mistake, I have American friends and I like Americans. I personally feel that this little election thief they have in there now is very dangerous for the whole world. You obviously feel different about it and that is your right. I suspect history will show he was worse than Nixon ever was, but we'll have to wait for that?
One of my good coffee buddies has a grandson fighting in Iraq right now. Supposed to be home by Christmas but delayed until April 1. He writes his grandfather that the people hate the American troops with an intensity that is hard to believe. He has lost five men in his battalion and the soldiers morale is very low. They just want to get the hell out of there.

[raymondb]

As you said Cowman--complete false propaganda. My grandfather was killed in Poland when the Hitler invaded and my Grandmothers story is quite different than yours. She was there.

Oh by the way--Saddam DID torture anyone who opposed him and that is no propaganda.