New money rumour

[johnboy555]

rusty.......you tell that jar head

[frustrated1]

What are you johnboy?? And how do you define a "real job"? And no, I don't have time to read comics to know what a jar head is. We crop a couple thousand acres. Custom seed, spray, hay and combine. Have 150 bred cows which makes us one of your "cow calf dudes". I'd like to know where it is I can get a "real job" that allows me time to read the comics? Maybe I can come work for you? Or is a "real job" one that puts me on the recieving end of the govt paycheck? Maybe you could let all of us know what you do for your "real job" so we can figure where you're coming from?

[cowman]

rsomer brings up some good points and what he was pointing out is the cow/calf sector has received zero dollars while the feedlot sector has recieved close to 1 billion dollars in support. That is not debatable...that is a fact! Now I suspect a whole lot of that 1 billion dollars found it's way into Cargill/IBPs pockets and I do know the local feeders around Red Deer are hurting...but these are not the mega-lots, just 1000-6000 head.
I don't know if people like Pascal and Cor van Ray are hurting. Pascal says the bank has cut him off from buying. Is this true? You guys who live down there should know?
What is happening in feedlot alley? Are the pens sitting empty? Are people being laid off? Are suppliers being paid?

[rusty1]

thanks cowman - a real question. Cor VanRae just closed 2 lots and moved all the cattle into the remainder. The hours for the staff in a lot of yards have been cut way back. As you know employers don't like to layoff their staff. Many staff have been asked to cut their salery and hours. I talked to one forman ( agood man) on Friday who had picked up his last cheque and was moving out of the feedlot industry for more hours and money. Many lots are only 1/2 full and need custome cattle because they have lost so much equity. I was in a meeting with a lot of feeders a coule of days ago and they many commented on how much they have lost and how worried they are, but they did not wine, and felt they were continue and - either go down or survive.
And as I have said before the packers got most of the 1B$ rsomer talks about. I know there are still some cattle in pens from May 20th. The set aside program didn't work. It cost them. They had to put finished feeders on a holding (starter ration) which is very high silage, and the most costly ration in the list, and when you back down the feeders from 3 lbs. per day and clean up you're silage pile with no gain it's a double wamie. To top that off, a lot of cattle had to be kept to long and wound up weighing in the 1600 to 1800 lb. range and they then recieved a $350 deduction for "over weights". No they haven't won any battle down here. You can tell rsomer that is things were as good as he think the feeders would be buying cattle.

[cowman]

Thankyou rusty. We all need to hear just what is happening at the local level. You told the story very well.

[rusty1]

I think that in some respects - the reason feedlot alley is so hard hit is that they do one thing and one thing only - finish cattle. No side lines like farming or cow calf, or custom backgrounding to grass. But you see alot of fear in their eyes.

[rsomer]

Of course feedlot alley was hard hit and without question they needed the government support they received. At some point there needs to be a realization that the cow calf sector was hard hit by BSE too and deserve their fair share of the government support, government support which has not been there.
The 90,000 cow calf producers cannot wait 12 more months to get their CAIS cheque. The cow calf operator has been using their diversification to cash flow their operations to now but need a direct injection of money real soon, more than just the promised $15 per head cull cow program.
Yes the feedlots were hard hit by BSE but the cow calf sector was just as hard hit and that needs to be said again and again until the message gets through to the politicians who are handing out the cash.

[pandiana]

Here! Here! rsomer

[pandiana]

Actually, this is very interesting disucssion. I would like more information on how this money was distributed to the feedlots and how it ended up in the packers hands. Would not the small feedlots have equal access to the subsidies?

I do have to wonder about some of the media coverage that the feedlots have been able to garner? We have been hearing for quite some time about feedlots going broke but somehow they have been able to hang on. Will we ever know what is media hype and what is real? Rusty's insight into the feedlots is quite helpful but need more.

[pandiana]

All finished cattle were eligible for the Government money. We decided to finish our 70 some steers last year and did recieve payment on the cattle sold in July and August ( 12 toll free calls later). Still waiting for word on the cattle sold after that. My attitude is to take the money if it is offered or somebody else will.
The point about the packers benefitting from the money is simply the price drop directly after the program announcement. How could it be that the packer offering price just happened to drop by almost exactly the dollar value as the program announced?



It is sad to see the finger pointing going on between cow/calf and feedlot guys. We are all hurting, and so are a lot of American producers. Society has put us in a pickle not only with so little value in our product but now with this fear monguring over BSE. Every one of us has the right to say what we need to say, and this thead has made an entertaining read. I hope we can all have a beer together in the end, so to speak.

[k-way]

I think the real point here is that OK the feedlots got some help. Wether or not it was enough, or stayed in their pockets (or ended up with the packers) is something they know for themselves. But us cow/calf operators need help too. All the media attention has focussed on everyone but us, except for the governments' spending announcements (none of which has ever filtered down to our farm!). Somebody should try to get us some more press, especially since CAA and ABP aren't doing it for our $3 checkoff. If something doesn't happen for our part of the industry, and soon, all the aid doled out to the packers and feedlots will have been a waste of money. And CAA/ABP will go broke along with them because there won't be any cow/calf operators left to provide stock for them to profit from.

[johnboy555]

The money did filter down to the cow calf boys and lots of it. To be exact about 200 dollars per head last fall in feeder prices. Every cow calf guy that sold calves last fall got it threw the market place. A lot of cow calf guys did not sell their calves last fall instead they bought some, gambling on the border opening in jan. Well bad gamble, now a lot of the cow calf boys are in the same boat as are a lot of feedlots. Welcome boys to the world of losing real money.

[cropduster]

Right on JB Triple Nickel!Now we`ve got to get adjusted to reduced `feeder`numbers for this fall.As this `thing`comes to the wall everyone will be reaching into their back pockets to pull out more equity.Lots of other business operators would be abandoning ship.Should we be any different??????

[cowman]

Well johnny boy I will admit prices did improve for some cow/calf guys if(and that is a big if) they hit the right market. I sold my steer calves in late January at $1.12 average and I think they averaged in that 680 range. But did I make money? Maybe...
I got out some records. In 1992 I sold 56 steers calves Nov. 7 and they averaged 760 lbs. Never on feed, just off momma and what hay they could eat(we have to start feeding about Nov. 1 up here in the frozen north. They averaged $1.22 or $919.60! That year I bought a 1992 new truck...all the bells and whistles $21,000! This year I bought a new truck... not all the bells and whistles $39,000! You tell me did I make a lot of money off the generous cattle market?
The cattle business has been doing a slow slide since about 1994, or so I believe? I guess there comes a time when you need to decide...how low can I go? I don't love them that much that I will pay to work!
I find it offensive when people like Rick Pascal tell me he subsidized me by buying my calves for an over inflated price! I just think "If you think this is "overinflated" then you can raise the bastards!"...and incidently I like Rick! But I refuse to raise food for people for a loss! I guess I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore...and luckily I don't have to!

[cowman]

Sorry if I vented a little to harshly on this one! Came home from a lovely day, helping a buddy drag a dead cat out of a lease to find the damned bulls had decided it would be a good idea to have a battle royale and destroy the corral they were in! Further my son decided it would be a good day to check out the local Legion! You can just bet he got told a thing or two!