Different Viewpoint

[grassfarmer]

PureCountry and Randy are right on the money in my opinion. I am in the early stages of setting up something similar to Randy's operation and I too "use hairly little cows". As he says for years we have been laughed at when showing at cattle events but the tide is turning. In the UK the "native" breeds - namely Galloway, welsh black, Highland and Luings have been the big winners post BSE as margins get continually reduced - these are smaller more efficient cattle ideal for grass based production systems. The one breed that I find suits me the best is the Luing ... the what??? I hear you say - it's a Scottish breed developed from Shorthorn and Highland genetics. These cattle are the top selling maternal
beef breed in the UK at the moment.
In the spirit of tonight's openess feel free to check out our website at "www.luingcattle.com"

PureCountry,I grew up with galloways and they are damn hardy cattle,like my
Luings they will bring in a calf consistently year after year under conditions when most breeds struggle
- good luck with them.

[cakadu]

What you are saying is very true - PC - that the breed you have chosen is right for your operation. You've found animals with the traits that work well for you and most importantly that your customers are willing to purchase. The breed may not work for everyone and in this commercially based commodity driven marketplace known as the livestock industry, some of the breeds just do not work; yet in the right circumstances they work just fine.

We raise sheep, but not the conventional type sheep - we raise a breed known as Barbados Black Belly and in a commercial operation they really just don't seem to work as they are a smaller carcass.

Yet, for what we do in our direct marketing business, they work wonderfully and our customers like the meat so much that we get rave reviews.

Bottom line is that it is about running a business and as with most businesses, you go with what works.

[cowman]

Cropduster: That movie is playing right now on TV! I will try to check it out soon. If you reccomend it as a must see then it must be good!

[kato]

The approach you use depends a lot on where you are,too. In Manitoba, we have had a long history of sending feeder cattle east to Ontario. Just as many as go west to Alberta.

The buyers with the deepest pockets in the past have been Ontario boys looking for Charolais calves. The Alberta Angus push of the last few years set that back a bit, but I wouldn't want to predict what the future holds.

I think the key is moderate size, no matter what the breed, and matching the animal to the climate and grass conditions.

It goes back to what everyone has been saying...the best fit for your own individual operation.

Besides if everyone grew identical cattle that finished on the same day they would be worth not a cent. There are premiums paid for almost any type of carcass, if you can find the person who is looking for that type.

[cowman]

RPKaiser: I don't quite understand something you wrote "optimum genetics backed up with a six pack of hormones"? What does that mean? I hope you aren't using a lot of hormones or something? Or am I completely not reading this right?
I don't know anything much about Galloway cattle. It seems to me really long haired cattle are discounted pretty heavy in the auction mart? Why sometimes they even discount the calves with curly coats!
I wonder why Galloway or luing cattle never really caught on before? I mean we must have imported just about every breed in the world into Canada in the last 35 years or so? I do believe that old black baldy is just about as tough as anything...or for that matter the old time Hereford? I wonder why these cattle were the ones that "won the west" probably under tougher conditions than we have today? Where were these other British breeds when they opened up this country? I believe the old A7/Cross ranch brought in Galloways back in the late 1800s but they sort of didn't last?

[cowman]

cowman. The full gentic potential thing backed up with a six pack of hormones is something I learned from a continental cattle breeder who argues that that is the only way to grow cattle. I don't touch the stuff, and never will. Our steers finished last year at 15 and 16 months without hormones averaging 1250 lbs. and grading 75% AAA after a 62% initial cut.
My farm is not organic but I do not use any chemical fetilizers, herbisides, or pesticides. I believe in leaving something for the folks down the road.

As far as galloways not catching on, that is a good question. The hair coat, like anything else that is different in the auction mart has been discounted. Let's not forget that we farmers are a human, and humans tend to jump on top of something that is down. Have a giggle about the hairy calf in the auction barn (coffee shop of the cattle industry) and lets see home many good old boys run out and buy a galloway bull. Peer pressue in the middle age man.
We also have to take this to the next step and add MONEY. Sure Mr. Cross was a wealthy man, but I would guess that he watched that money pretty close. How many exotic cattle breeds were brought in in the 70's and had oilfield money thown at them til the made a presences in the market place. Cattle that had little more to offer than Galloways or Welsh Blacks and maybe even less.
I won't argue that we don't have a wonderful cow herd in Canada, and I am aprreciative of the good qualities that every one of our breeds has to offer. I will say that if you look beyond the conversation about the hair, these cattle have a lot to offer the industry as well. Moderate and efficeint will be the goals of many breeds for the next few years. Galloways and Welsh Blacks are already there. Sorry if this sounds like an ad, but you asked.

[cowman]

Was thinking through chores a bit more about your question cowman.
I guess the aspect of money always seems to be the main consideration of any business and I realize that most feel that we need to spend money to get money. This has been more than evident since the dawn of the continental European breeds to Canada in the 60's and 70's. Have we got a bull for you!!
He may cost you a bit more, it may cost a bit more feed, and sometimes more labour, it will cost you more to feed the calves to slaughter, and the heifers to make cows, who will in turn cost you more to maintain. But I guarantee you will make money. Hmmmm.
Like the open minded individuals that we at Agri-vation.com tend to be. Can we allow a guy a theory of saving money to make money as well.
You might be surprised cowman how many of those black baldie wonder cows have some Galloway or Welsh Black blood in them that never gets much mention because of the stigma involved with breeding those hairy little cattle.

One final comment about why we have not taken off til now. A lot of those people who save money to make money go overboard and feed lees than what I would call adequate rations. These calves really show up when sent through the auction ring and hurt us.When we go the other way and feed similar to the show ring cattle, they really shine. We had a 1220 lb. heifer with her 1008 lb.(Agribition weights) calf out on the show road last summer and fall. The pair beat out about 10 other breeds in Calgary and Edmonton taking Grand Champion Female and Grand Champion Male at Farmfair in Edmonton.
One of my favourite lines about Galloways is that they have been bred to consume low quality forages and produce beef for 400 years. These are not milk cows or oxen, they are moderate framed, efficient beef cattle that will compete with any breed when it comes to making a profit in the industry.
Maybe instead of giving up, with what I suspect is a wonderful infrastructure, you should go out and find some hairy little cows of your own and relax for a few years.

[PureCountry]

rpkaiser, when you say moderate and efficient will be the goal of other breeds in the next few years, I couldn't agree with you more. As a matter of fact, when you walk through the barns at any cattle show, you can see the effect on every breed - at least the main stream ones. Simmental, Limousin, Maine-Anjou, Hereford, Angus and a long list of others have bred there breeds up so that now, when you see pictures of the Champions in each breed, you don't know what you're looking at! You can see a little more muscle expression and bone in the exotics, but they've smoothened them out to look like an Angus. I think it's a damn shame. As a breeder you ought to be proud of your breeds traditional strengths, and stick with them. You shouldn't be breeding up to get the look AND COLOR that's the latest rage. I think we'll see this trend continue though, as long as solid colored, smooth calves are in, breeds will keep injecting a little something and saying, "We've always had red genetics!" or, "We've always had Black genetics!". Save it for the dummies who are willing to listen. To those who have kept their animals what they are/were, good on ya'. Maybe we'll see a change, maybe we won't, but the last time I spoke to Ann Dunford of Canfax, she said they were seeing carcass weights stay about the same, instead of increasing in size, for the first time in years.

[kato]

I think when the dust settles after our current debacle, and a lot of the off farm purebred investors are scared off, it can only be good for the cattle industry.

Remember back in the 80's when someone somwhere with a lot of money decided cattle needed to be 8 feet tall?

I remember our boys in 4H with their 1150 pound brick solid finished Charolais steers who stood way behind some fancy Simmentals who ended up grading a B. The judge said the other steers won because they had "eye appeal". What does that have to do with anything? You can't eat eye appeal.

I think now there is some sensibility coming back into the purebreds. Have you seen a Simmental bull lately? You'd never recognize it as the same breed. Actually, if you go through the AI books, and paint all the bulls the same colour, there's not a lot of difference in them.

When we buy feeders, we could care less about colour or breed. We have a picture in our minds of what "type" of calf feeds well, and that's what we buy. A lot of different combinations can come up with that calf. You really can't tell what breed you bought just by looking at them anyway.

Breed what you like, and what works on your farm. Avoid "trends"... just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it best. (remember the 8 foot tall cattle? LOL!!)

[grassfarmer]

PureCountry, I agree with you again when you talk about the breeding for "sameness" This craze of having Simmentals/Angus/Salers/Devons/Limousins/Charolais all the same size and shape available in any colour with or without horns is nonsense. I don't believe it's master breeding, rather short sighted fad chasing breeding by people more interested in the money than the cattle. We need to maintain the genetic diversity in our cattle breeds as well as in other farm animals and crops or we will suffer more from disease and pests in the future.