Different Viewpoint

[PureCountry]

Strawboss: you bring up a good point, sir, and I've thought about it quite a bit. My Dad told me to get a written contract, as did several others, and I've also taken the time to find other buyers looking for the kind of cattle I'm going to raise. You see the biggest thing I realized about our ranch, is that, instead of trying to push the cows production, I need to push our per-acre-production. I have to give credit to Russel Horvey, Paul Froeler, Randy Kaiser, and although I haven't met the man, Don Campbell, for enlightening me to this way of thinking. Our place is hard-grass country at its finest, with a lot of native grass, bush and very rough hills. Big, extreme cattle are not going to be profitable here. Actually, I'm not afraid to say it, I don't know anyplace that big exotic cow herds are profitable anymore. Our type of operation is best suited to a super-hardy, low-maintenance cow herd, and nothing wraps that up in a single package like a Galloway cow. Stand back and watch the responses fly now, and bring them on I say! No other breed save the Highland, can match the hardiness of a Galloway for our climate. So, through the process of making that move to cut a new standard in low-cost production, I've been able to meet these people who are of a like mind set. I don't think my eggs are in one basket, but I must admit Strawboss, it has crossed my mind.

[Horse]

It was nice to see youthful enthusiam but after that comment about highland cattle boy do you have a lot of hurt coming before you go broke or change your way of thinking .
I can rember having warm and fuzzy thoughts but sooner or later you do have to come around to reality.

[PureCountry]

The reality sir is this: My belief is that Galloway are the best choice for my operation = no horns, easy-fleshing, easy-calving, milk and mothering instincts as good as my Angus if not better. My comment about the Highlands was only to acknowledge the TRUTH, that they are as hardy as the Galloway. The last time I checked, we live a long way North of the Equator, and people are finally realizing (myself included) that a hair coat is an essential trait in genetic selection. I've tried alot of different breeds, in my own herd as well as with my grandfather, great uncles and father. There are breeds that will always have their place in our industry, and there are breeds that have nothing to offer over and above the proven merits of others. My choice through experience and research is a Galloway, Angus and Shorthorn cross cow base. Maybe others work better for you, or give you that warm fuzzy feeling, but mine give me that feeling every time I walk out to see a calf up and sucking in under 10 mintues. They give me that feeling when I've come back from helping my neighbour hold 130lb. calves up to a teat, or help him milk out a teat the size of a beer bottle. They give me that feeling too, when I hear buyers and auction reps. ask when I want to bring them to town. Ya, I remember that fuzzy feeling, too. I'm reminded of it every day.

[magpie]

Strawboss it has been tough even when you have eggs in different baskets. I’m into cattle, hogs, grains, poultry and oilseeds. I’m as mixed as they come when it comes to agriculture sectors. Perhaps I should sell and invest in other sectors but when my sons are close to purecountrys age and want to continue as I want them to { should give my head a shake} there is no other option. We will climb up the food chain if we all work collectively together for common goal. Be back later got to go . Welcome purecountry

[magpie]

Even if you put your eggs in different baskets, you're still in the egg business.
Since good old Pure Country has laid his life on the line for all of us to see, I've decided to introduce myself as well without any sales pitch. I run a purebred and commercial cattle operation with a non agricultural partner. Our first step in diversity.
Our cowherd consists of about 150 purebred cows and 70 comercial. We cull hard to produce about 20 two year old bulls for sale each year. We market all of our cull steers and heifers through a private producer driven company providing Calgary restaurants and specialty shops with a hormone free, antibiotic free, quality product.It's not always roses but when has anything outside the box been all roses.

While reading Pure Country's opening comments I thought about how he likes the idea of farmers working together, but also coming up with ways to help themselves. If I were only out to help myself, I would not have spent hours talking with and writing to government and industry leaders trying to help find slotions to our BSE BS.
WHY
Because our little niche market has thrived because of this mess. Our cattle have all of a sudden become noticed. The young man who felt like the bullied geek at the trade shows 12 years ago with his funny little hairy cows has found a bunch of high class restaurant chefs who can't get enough. And a growing number of commercial cattle producers who see the merits in the phase "we get paid for the quality of our beef" instead of the old "we get paid by the pound for our calves" (Damn the expenses).
I believe that once these new rancher owned packing plants come on line the key will be verticle integration. Some may stay the course of 1600 lb carcasses with little or no marbling while making good use of barley with optimim growth genetics backed up with a six pack of hormones.

All the power to everyone like that or like us. All I can say, like I have for years is that there is room for all of us even if we have to look like radicals for now.

[grassfarmer]

PureCountry and Randy are right on the money in my opinion. I am in the early stages of setting up something similar to Randy's operation and I too "use hairly little cows". As he says for years we have been laughed at when showing at cattle events but the tide is turning. In the UK the "native" breeds - namely Galloway, welsh black, Highland and Luings have been the big winners post BSE as margins get continually reduced - these are smaller more efficient cattle ideal for grass based production systems. The one breed that I find suits me the best is the Luing ... the what??? I hear you say - it's a Scottish breed developed from Shorthorn and Highland genetics. These cattle are the top selling maternal
beef breed in the UK at the moment.
In the spirit of tonight's openess feel free to check out our website at "www.luingcattle.com"

PureCountry,I grew up with galloways and they are damn hardy cattle,like my
Luings they will bring in a calf consistently year after year under conditions when most breeds struggle
- good luck with them.

[cakadu]

What you are saying is very true - PC - that the breed you have chosen is right for your operation. You've found animals with the traits that work well for you and most importantly that your customers are willing to purchase. The breed may not work for everyone and in this commercially based commodity driven marketplace known as the livestock industry, some of the breeds just do not work; yet in the right circumstances they work just fine.

We raise sheep, but not the conventional type sheep - we raise a breed known as Barbados Black Belly and in a commercial operation they really just don't seem to work as they are a smaller carcass.

Yet, for what we do in our direct marketing business, they work wonderfully and our customers like the meat so much that we get rave reviews.

Bottom line is that it is about running a business and as with most businesses, you go with what works.

[cowman]

Cropduster: That movie is playing right now on TV! I will try to check it out soon. If you reccomend it as a must see then it must be good!

[kato]

The approach you use depends a lot on where you are,too. In Manitoba, we have had a long history of sending feeder cattle east to Ontario. Just as many as go west to Alberta.

The buyers with the deepest pockets in the past have been Ontario boys looking for Charolais calves. The Alberta Angus push of the last few years set that back a bit, but I wouldn't want to predict what the future holds.

I think the key is moderate size, no matter what the breed, and matching the animal to the climate and grass conditions.

It goes back to what everyone has been saying...the best fit for your own individual operation.

Besides if everyone grew identical cattle that finished on the same day they would be worth not a cent. There are premiums paid for almost any type of carcass, if you can find the person who is looking for that type.

[cowman]

RPKaiser: I don't quite understand something you wrote "optimum genetics backed up with a six pack of hormones"? What does that mean? I hope you aren't using a lot of hormones or something? Or am I completely not reading this right?
I don't know anything much about Galloway cattle. It seems to me really long haired cattle are discounted pretty heavy in the auction mart? Why sometimes they even discount the calves with curly coats!
I wonder why Galloway or luing cattle never really caught on before? I mean we must have imported just about every breed in the world into Canada in the last 35 years or so? I do believe that old black baldy is just about as tough as anything...or for that matter the old time Hereford? I wonder why these cattle were the ones that "won the west" probably under tougher conditions than we have today? Where were these other British breeds when they opened up this country? I believe the old A7/Cross ranch brought in Galloways back in the late 1800s but they sort of didn't last?

[cowman]

cowman. The full gentic potential thing backed up with a six pack of hormones is something I learned from a continental cattle breeder who argues that that is the only way to grow cattle. I don't touch the stuff, and never will. Our steers finished last year at 15 and 16 months without hormones averaging 1250 lbs. and grading 75% AAA after a 62% initial cut.
My farm is not organic but I do not use any chemical fetilizers, herbisides, or pesticides. I believe in leaving something for the folks down the road.

As far as galloways not catching on, that is a good question. The hair coat, like anything else that is different in the auction mart has been discounted. Let's not forget that we farmers are a human, and humans tend to jump on top of something that is down. Have a giggle about the hairy calf in the auction barn (coffee shop of the cattle industry) and lets see home many good old boys run out and buy a galloway bull. Peer pressue in the middle age man.
We also have to take this to the next step and add MONEY. Sure Mr. Cross was a wealthy man, but I would guess that he watched that money pretty close. How many exotic cattle breeds were brought in in the 70's and had oilfield money thown at them til the made a presences in the market place. Cattle that had little more to offer than Galloways or Welsh Blacks and maybe even less.
I won't argue that we don't have a wonderful cow herd in Canada, and I am aprreciative of the good qualities that every one of our breeds has to offer. I will say that if you look beyond the conversation about the hair, these cattle have a lot to offer the industry as well. Moderate and efficeint will be the goals of many breeds for the next few years. Galloways and Welsh Blacks are already there. Sorry if this sounds like an ad, but you asked.

[cowman]

Was thinking through chores a bit more about your question cowman.
I guess the aspect of money always seems to be the main consideration of any business and I realize that most feel that we need to spend money to get money. This has been more than evident since the dawn of the continental European breeds to Canada in the 60's and 70's. Have we got a bull for you!!
He may cost you a bit more, it may cost a bit more feed, and sometimes more labour, it will cost you more to feed the calves to slaughter, and the heifers to make cows, who will in turn cost you more to maintain. But I guarantee you will make money. Hmmmm.
Like the open minded individuals that we at Agri-vation.com tend to be. Can we allow a guy a theory of saving money to make money as well.
You might be surprised cowman how many of those black baldie wonder cows have some Galloway or Welsh Black blood in them that never gets much mention because of the stigma involved with breeding those hairy little cattle.

One final comment about why we have not taken off til now. A lot of those people who save money to make money go overboard and feed lees than what I would call adequate rations. These calves really show up when sent through the auction ring and hurt us.When we go the other way and feed similar to the show ring cattle, they really shine. We had a 1220 lb. heifer with her 1008 lb.(Agribition weights) calf out on the show road last summer and fall. The pair beat out about 10 other breeds in Calgary and Edmonton taking Grand Champion Female and Grand Champion Male at Farmfair in Edmonton.
One of my favourite lines about Galloways is that they have been bred to consume low quality forages and produce beef for 400 years. These are not milk cows or oxen, they are moderate framed, efficient beef cattle that will compete with any breed when it comes to making a profit in the industry.
Maybe instead of giving up, with what I suspect is a wonderful infrastructure, you should go out and find some hairy little cows of your own and relax for a few years.

[PureCountry]

rpkaiser, when you say moderate and efficient will be the goal of other breeds in the next few years, I couldn't agree with you more. As a matter of fact, when you walk through the barns at any cattle show, you can see the effect on every breed - at least the main stream ones. Simmental, Limousin, Maine-Anjou, Hereford, Angus and a long list of others have bred there breeds up so that now, when you see pictures of the Champions in each breed, you don't know what you're looking at! You can see a little more muscle expression and bone in the exotics, but they've smoothened them out to look like an Angus. I think it's a damn shame. As a breeder you ought to be proud of your breeds traditional strengths, and stick with them. You shouldn't be breeding up to get the look AND COLOR that's the latest rage. I think we'll see this trend continue though, as long as solid colored, smooth calves are in, breeds will keep injecting a little something and saying, "We've always had red genetics!" or, "We've always had Black genetics!". Save it for the dummies who are willing to listen. To those who have kept their animals what they are/were, good on ya'. Maybe we'll see a change, maybe we won't, but the last time I spoke to Ann Dunford of Canfax, she said they were seeing carcass weights stay about the same, instead of increasing in size, for the first time in years.

[kato]

I think when the dust settles after our current debacle, and a lot of the off farm purebred investors are scared off, it can only be good for the cattle industry.

Remember back in the 80's when someone somwhere with a lot of money decided cattle needed to be 8 feet tall?

I remember our boys in 4H with their 1150 pound brick solid finished Charolais steers who stood way behind some fancy Simmentals who ended up grading a B. The judge said the other steers won because they had "eye appeal". What does that have to do with anything? You can't eat eye appeal.

I think now there is some sensibility coming back into the purebreds. Have you seen a Simmental bull lately? You'd never recognize it as the same breed. Actually, if you go through the AI books, and paint all the bulls the same colour, there's not a lot of difference in them.

When we buy feeders, we could care less about colour or breed. We have a picture in our minds of what "type" of calf feeds well, and that's what we buy. A lot of different combinations can come up with that calf. You really can't tell what breed you bought just by looking at them anyway.

Breed what you like, and what works on your farm. Avoid "trends"... just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it best. (remember the 8 foot tall cattle? LOL!!)

[grassfarmer]

PureCountry, I agree with you again when you talk about the breeding for "sameness" This craze of having Simmentals/Angus/Salers/Devons/Limousins/Charolais all the same size and shape available in any colour with or without horns is nonsense. I don't believe it's master breeding, rather short sighted fad chasing breeding by people more interested in the money than the cattle. We need to maintain the genetic diversity in our cattle breeds as well as in other farm animals and crops or we will suffer more from disease and pests in the future.