Cut Your Costs!

[PureCountry]

Cowman: I read in one of your posts about the cost of a 600lb. weaned calf being $720. If that were everyones cost of production/calf, we'd all be broke. I touched on this point in my other posts, and I'll say it again: We can't expect huge dollars for our calves, no matter what we do. Whether you sell them off the cow through our 'beloved' auction system, or finish them on grass at 18 months of age, beef is only worth so much on the hoof. Truer words were never spoken than when Paul Froeler told me, "We have to make our own premiums." Figure out how to cut your costs to $400/calf, and things look a whole lot different. Don't buy that $40,000 twin screw mix wagon, when the old 4020 and bale truck have sufficed just fine. Calve on grass instead of having that $60,000 heated barn with the crane bolted to the wall for pulling the 'tough ones'. Go TOGETHER with your neighbours on forage equipment and put it up TOGETHER. I could go on and on, but just take those costs of $100,000 and spread them over 100 cows. Depreciation alone at 10% per annum is $10,000, or roughly an extra $100 that every cow has to bring you to cover it. If you really want some good fat to chew, read an article by Christoph Weder from the 2002 Calving Special Issue of Cattlemen Magazine. Christoph is a Beef Specialist with Alberta Agric., and quite full of P and Vinegar like me. He calculates the difference between winter and spring calving at around $231/cow. If you don't have the old issue, e-mail me - anybody - and I'd be happy to fax it to you. In the mean time, think about this = how many folks do you know that drive the big crew cab dually, have the fancy house/yard, or the spread that everyone talks about? Now, conversely, how many do you know who drive the old rusted Toyota for running around, feed the cows with beat up equipment, and aren't thought of in the 'Cowboy Circle' as real Stockmen? I know plenty on both sides, but if any of you know how to tell which one manages a profitable operation, enlighten me. All I know is this, an empty wagon does the most rattling.

[PureCountry]

Guess I should have given y'all my e-mail address. It's pcstockfarm@yahoo.ca

[Horse]

Purecourtry Ican agree to a point as what you say is just what I have done for the last 40 yr But someone has to buy the new for us to be able to buy used and ever since the tractor wreckers started it has been a lot harder to access resanoble parts and things like utilities and taxes fuel insurance ect there is no getting aroundand after 40 yr I can tell you in a lot of cases you might just as well had a decent piece of equipt to operate.
I know when you are young you can conquer the world but I think you will find old age catches up way ahead of your plans.

[PureCountry]

My you are of the cheerful sort! I will do what works for me, and I will always strive to find others with open minds, willing to work together. My talk is not just from the same old banter of long ago. It's not like someone just handed me a farm and said, "Here, have fun with it!". The times of talking are done for me. They should be for more of you, too. I view this site in hopes of making contacts and learning from other people, not just offering out my opinions like a road-sign on the edge of the Info Super-Highway. People have talked about doing so many wonderful things for years; when does that talk end and action begin?

[kato]

A bit about the winter calving. We start in January in Manitoba. That's cold! It doesn't have to be a more expensive way to do it.

We use an old barn that has been used for dairy and hogs in the past. We built our own sheds. Used old telephone poles, hunted for deals on siding, and used our own labour. We have three big sheds that haven't cost us more than 2500.00 each. We have an oldie but a goodie tractor. We also clean our own corrals in a one week annual marathon with a rented bobcat and an old grain truck.

We are all done calving before pasture starts, and a lot of those calves are big enough to utilize the grass in the pasture as well as the cows do. We wean early, and have 1000 lb. steers in January. The cows graze corn until Christmas, and start calving three weeks later.

Our reasoning is that the pastures we use are all far away, and we do seem to hit a better market for the calves. (In a normal year! LOL) If we calved in the pasture, we would have no way to check the cows.

What I am getting at is that there are lots of way to do things cheaper. You have to come up with one that fits your farm. No two situations are alike.

Besides, the "experts" are all pushing for later calving, and "experts" make me nervous.

[k-way]

I hear you PureCountry! A lot of farmers out here talk about co-operation and all kinds of other niceties. But in our experience, when push comes to shove, most of them would stab you in the back to save their own a#@, instead of even considering how working together could be beneficial for both sides. As young farmers who started our own operation instead of inheriting one, we've seen that happen much more often than not. Even amongst our neighbors! We've had occasional good turns come our way, but they are pretty rare. I agree that us farmers need to be a lot less independent if our industry is to survive.

[ValueChainFX]

k-way and Purecountry, it's always nice to find like minded people to work with! However as you have said a written contract may save a stab in the back. In saying this however, an independent farmer is also interdependent on the system (whatever system) is in place. Until last year there really wasn't the right business structure for independent primary producers to cooperatively work in. (I can already hear the gasps) I do believe the New Gen Cooperative structure has a good foundation to start from, as long as you don't just let the lawyers ram the same old/same old down your throat! I also believe the primary producer (with the help of others in the supply chain) need to keep the door open to government but not depend on them, also the associations, commissions etc. etc. that are government buffers need to lead follow or get out of the way. Producers have been offered many things and plenty of folks got burnt out there, they also pay check off dollars and have very little or no say in where they go! Our primary agriculture industry will be developed by the primary producer and our government and quasi-government organizations will get on board when it is politically right for them! Since it's not about politics for the primary producer they have a choice to make something happen or watch something happen.

Your thoughts?

[rsomer]

PureCountry: See: http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/nfs6897?opendocument
How come $720 or $740 is questioned as the cost of raising a weaned calf from an egg and a sperm to 550-600 pounds yet no one questions $470 to finish a calf to slaughter? Yes there are ways to cut costs and I would think everyone still in the business has found the best way to cut costs on their operation. But why should the cow calf man be the only one being asked in this crisis to cut his costs? Why does the cow calf operator have to cut costs to survive when the rest of the industry gets $1Billion in government support? I believe if the calf can be weaned for $720 then the cow calf sector is extremely efficient already. No other sector of the beef industry can match that kind of low cost value added production dollar for dollar.

[rusty1]

But why should the cow calf man be the only one being asked in this crisis to cut his costs?

This thread was a breath of fresh air till....

The cow calf man isn't the only one asked to cut costs. Socialists never connect the dots. The feedlot industry has already cut a lot of costs, go to Picture Butte and find out how many people have been laid off. You can find alot of good help for you're fancy spread.

[rsomer]

If we look at the Alberta Ag numbers which calculate that a 850 pound calf can be fed out to slaughter for a total cost of $275 including yardage, death loss, and interest and when you consider the margin between 850 pound feeder steers and 1200 finished steers since the New Year has averaged $575 it doesn’t take much to see why it is the cow calf man that has to cut costs instead of the feedlots who are making $300 a head contribution on each and every steer being sold.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone but it needs to be said that:
1. The cow calf sector lost as much due to BSE as the feedlots did, it was just spread among more people.
2. The cow calf sector did not get direct BSE support from government and the feedlots did. And good for them, they needed it. The cow calf sector needs it too.
3. The cow calf sector cannot be expected to stand the hit from BSE anymore than the feedlot sector could have.
4. It costs money to wean a calf just like it costs money to finish a calf. It is not reasonable to ask the cow calf sector to cut its costs to survive BSE any more than it would have been to ask the feedlots to tighten their belts. Help was there for them.
5. It is unfair to give direct ad hoc payments to the feedlots but nothing to the cow calf operators. When disaster struck Quebec and Ontario with the ice storm no one in government asked those people to get their assistance through CAIS. The help was there as it should have been, that was a real disaster. BSE is a disaster too but why hasn’t the cow calf sector received any help?

I would think I had died and gone to heaven if I ever made $300 on a calf. It isn’t finger pointing to say that the cow calf operators need to get their message out that they need assistance and they need it soon.

[rusty1]

You're biggest mistake rsomer is believing anything out of AltaAg. Since when have they had an understanding of anything other than growing daisies.

[rsomer]

rusty1: What numbers would you use?

[kato]

What we really all need is a functioning market.

But in the meantime, the feedlots needed money. They got it. We need money. We haven't got it.

I realize what you are saying...it's not that the money should go to one or the other, it should go to both.

Supporting one portion of the industry without the other is a waste of good money. You can prop up the packers and feedlots all you like, but in the long run those calves have to come from somewhere. (and not the States..not viable in the long run)

[carebear300]

Well said Kato dam hard to eat a juicy steak without first having a cow to produce a calf. And much like the feedlot industry we that raise calves have to be allowed a decent chance at making some money at it or we will perish.

[almoy]

What happened to the announcement that was supposed to be made for help for the cow/ calf producer. A couple of weeks ago they said it would be announced any day. Maybe they are now counting on the border opening soon and they will claim we won't need any help then.

Was at the auction mart today. The prices have moved up some but are still not going to pay too many bills.