Bluetongue

[cakadu]

The way I look at this, it is sort of like the hinting around at marriage. Unless you have a ring, a date and a minister booked, there isn't any wedding.

What do we have from the Americans? Is it wishful thinking on our part?

[rsomer]

The border was going to open anyway. The feedlots have been trying for 10 years to gain unrestricted access to U.S. feeders and damn the consequences for the Canadian cow calf producer. BSE was just an excuse to push this through.

[amazed]

It seems in life you always have to give a little to get something back. I'm not thrilled with the change but it is easy to see how it was viewed as a non-scientific trade barrier.

If we keep complaining about the Americans keeping the border closed despite the science of BSE are we not being hypocrits by doing the same with anaplas and bluetongue?

Or do we need a bit of cheese with our whine?

[cakadu]

Once again we are looking at short term economics at the expense of long term sustainability.

Who says that the science didn't work? Did we have these diseases in this country prior to now? Tell me what logic there is in saying that because these diseases are, the science didn't work?

Amazed, where is the guarantee that this will have ANY effect at all on how soon the Americans will open the border? I am not even in the cattle business and I can see the potential pitfalls here.

How will this benefit Canadian cow/calf producers that need to sell their feeders somewhere? The long ago prediction that I heard about Canada becoming a feedlot for the Americans looks like it is becoming more of a reality every day.

[cakadu]

Sorry, that 3rd paragraph should read that because the diseases aren't here, the science didn't work?

There is also the fact that they are not potentially harmful to humans - that we know of, but what about the animals themselves? Shouldn't we be trying to do what is right for them as well?

[amazed]

Cakadu-"Did we have these diseases in this country prior to now? Tell me what logic there is in saying that because these diseases are, the science didn't work?"

Actually yes. Bluetongue is occasionally found in the Okanagan Valley with the last case reported in 1999. Last time I checked that was part of Canada. Insects know no borders.


Cakadu-"Amazed, where is the guarantee that this will have ANY effect at all on how soon the Americans will open the border?"

If you want guarantees you better find a different profession as you won't find them in agriculture. Do you think that maybe some of the meetings between US and Canadian officials have got the ball rolling again. They were almost there when the Dec. 23 case showed up.


Cakadu-"I am not even in the cattle business and I can see the potential pitfalls here."


I guess that's where you and I differ. You aren't in the cattle business and I am. In fact my livliehood depends on it. Without the change in bluetongue and anaplas retrictions the border would take a lot longer to open.

Cakadu-"How will this benefit Canadian cow/calf producers that need to sell their feeders somewhere? The long ago prediction that I heard about Canada becoming a feedlot for the Americans looks like it is becoming more of a reality every day."

What Canadian industry is not controlled to some extent by the U.S.?
Like it or not they are big, they are our closest customer and they have money.

[k-way]

Exactly who claims that the science did not work to help keep these diseases out? Does anyone have any stats on how many tested animals, say over the last five years, were prevented from entering Canada due to these diseases? Unless the number is virtually zero, then we've sold ourselves out for nothing. The US needs the border open as much as we do, if only for the appearance of acccepting the science issues for the sake of their own export markets. It applies to them too, according to Mexico and several other countries that they are trying to sell into.

[amazed]

Don't get hung up on the science of any of this.

It is politics that closed the border and politics will reopen it.

[k-way]

Therein lies the problem. The science should outweigh the politics if we want to be able to keep the industry viable over the long term. What will they want next?

It's like the lumber industry (used to be my off-farm income). Everybody (NAFTA, WTO, etc) keeps telling us we're right, but we still keep negotiating away everything just to keep the border open. But it's just punishment for updating our mills and running more efficiently. So we end up subsidising them, so they can keep running old junk and still out-compete us. They don't need subsidies from their own gov't, we're paying for them.

[johnboy555]

Kato..... pretty scary when you say exactly what i think.......I think you hit err right on the head

[kato]

Once in a while a rant just makes you feel better. ;-)

As for the border... one place to start is for everyone here, and all of your neighbours to go on the APHIS website and MAKE A COMMENT on the rules. It's fine and dandy to talk to each other..but we need to take some of our ideas and put them out there for the U.S. government to hear. They need to know what they are doing to their supposedly best neighbours.

I was browsing through some comments that were posted by Americans,and I really think we need to get our side of the story out there. If they don't hear from us, they will assume we don't care.

Take a page from the activists handbook. Take your story where it will be heard. I can guarantee you there are people from the news media checking those comments on a regular basis.

I've made my comment...how about everyone else?

MMM...maybe what we really need is a story on Nightline, or maybe 20/20.

[cakadu]

Amazed, I may not be in the cattle business, but make no mistake, my livelihood as a sheep producer has been hard hit by the border closure. I cannot get a kill for my lamb without booking a minimum of 2 months in advance because the abbattoirs are filled with cull cows. Have you taken a look at lamb prices lately - they are probably at the lowest that they've been in the last few months and many of the feedlots have stopped taking them - period. Traditionally, this is a time of the year when spring lamb brings higher prices and the price is continuing to drop.

As a direct marketer, I am also hard hit by the fact that there is all this supposedly "cheap" beef around, not to mention other lamb producers who would normally sell to feedlots selling from the farm gate.

As a sheep producer, my animals are at risk for bluetongue and are highly susceptible to it.

I don't expect a guarantee for much of anything beyond death and taxes, but the powers that be have done this as a show of good faith on the Canadian side and they are hoping for more.

I believe those who have posted on this site that this has been in the works for a good long time and they have their excuse to push it through.

I wonder who is going to ensure that the animals that come across are properly tagged and segregated so as to minimize the spread of the diseases. I wonder who is going to ensure that the animals from high incidence states are kept in low incidence states for the 60 days before they are shipped up here. I wonder what good that will actually do.

I wonder how quickly countries, the U.S. included, will use it against us should we be so unfortunate to have a case of either disease arise here.

I wonder who will buy the calves of the Canadian producers when the feedlots have access to these "cheap" feeders from across the border.

I wonder when we will wake up and smell the coffee and quit doing whatever the U.S. wants for little or nothing in return.

I hope the cattle move again soon, amazed, and I pray that we haven't bitten off far more than we can chew because lord knows we have enough problems already.

[amazed]

Cakadu, I have some friends who are also sheep producers although not full time and I know how it has also affected your industry. My hat goes off to anyone who makes their sole living in the sheep business. It must be difficult.

Blue tongue has been found in the past in Canada and will be again. Do I like that fact? Of course not. Would I make that concession if cattle (and sheep)producers weren't in such dire straits. NO! Do I honestly believe the border would open WITHOUT that concession? No!

If there is a more secure market for Canadian beef that has LESS strings attached with any country other than the U.S. please let us know where it is. The U.S. and Mexico were the first countries to open to Canadian beef. We all would like it wide open but who else has done that? Where would we be if there had not been any boxed product leaving Canada since mid-Sept.?

Many are excited about testing beef for the Japanese. What guarantees have they given that they will take Canadian beef?
They wanted U.S. beef so bad last August that they increased the tariff on it.

Not many Canadians want to give in to any American demands but if you know of a closer market that IS secure, or less demanding and has ten times the consumption of Canada please share it with us!

[boone]

Post: I would ask anyone who is remotely interested to go on USDA web site and check out who is U.S.'s largest ag export market and second and third, as well look how they describe it. And yes that is in billions of dollars. We're No.1! we're No.1! And we have no clout! Give your heads a collective shake.

[cakadu]

There are potential markets, it's just the way that we grow our beef and refuse to change that precludes us from even getting into them.

The EU is a market that we cannot get into because we use hormones in our beef. Get rid of the hormones - grow the beef to the specifications of the customer - and a potentially lucrative market could be there. It is our choice to not go that route and the biggest reason is that many believe that we need hormones in order to competitively , they grow the beef.

We have witnessed first hand for the past 10 months just how difficult it is to have the majority of our eggs in one basket. Sure the U.S. has a lot of money, but the thing I have learned over the years with people with money is they tend to be fairly fickle, they bully and what is given can be quickly taken away - witness the last 10 months.

We - and I mean Canada here - want to sell the beef in boxes, cut our way and we don't particularly want to do it any differently. We don't necessarily want to listen to potential export markets that want things done a particular way because it doesn't suit how we are set up.

There are those of us who have been questioning for some time now where the increase in beef production was going to go, when there were no new markets opening up. We also have to compete with countries like South America who are positioning themselves to sell grass fed beef all over the world. How are we going to compete with that when we have to feed for a minimum of 200 days per year and in the last couple of years in my area, for a lot longer than that?

There is still no answer as to what is going to happen to the Canadian cow/calf producer when the U.S. feeders come in.

I understand where you are coming from when it comes to getting the border open - we all want that to happen, no question.

How we get it open is another story. I would be much happier to see us not giving concessions in order to do it, especially those that could do more harm than good to us in the long run.

As for the new markets, we won't know until we shift our attitudes, think outside the box and explore the potential.