slaughter weights

[blackjack]

Who decided a fat needed to be 1350 lbs?

Why not 1100 lbs or lets say 1000lbs?

Does the consumer really know or care how big the animal was as long as it tasted good?

[Cedar]

Um.....who says they have to be 1350?

I can see there being a market for various sizes, if packers and retailers were paying attention to what consumers really want, as I'm sure there are "varying appetites" out there! ...but...we know how that goes!

Naturally, if you tell a consumer the poundage on a finished animal, they would probably just look at you, with their head cocked off to the side like a confused puppy...going...duh!!! The way I see it, the consumer, naturally, cares if it tastes good, but also cares about the size of the individual cut they are buying....some like 'em big, some like 'em smaller, some can't afford a big chunk of beef, but maybe could "squeeze in" a smaller steak once in a while. I would tend to think with our aging population, that smaller cuts will become more in demand in the future. Obviously these are more easily attainable from a smaller animal.

As well, if you refer to the sale of whole or half animals, I would imagine with our smaller families nowdays, a smaller carcass (and therefore smaller cost) would be appreciated by the consumer.

One steer we did for ourselves ended up a 1400 and something pounder...great beef, but, oh geeze, just try and get that blasted steak to fit on a plate!!!

Ok, guys, I'm done....I'm sure I'm gonna "get it" on this one....have at 'er!!!!

[cowman]

The plants want an animal that falls within a certain weight range so he will fit in a box. Also it costs just as much to kill the 1000 lb. animal as it does the 1350 lb. animal so it just makes sense the 1350 lb. animal is cheaper to do per pound.

[amazed]

Something not mentioned in the discussion so far is marbling. A 1350 lb. steer will have a much better chance at meeting the marbling requirements than a 1000 or 1100 lb. steer due to age and time on feed. So some of the carcass size debate can also be tied to the grading system.

[15444]

One reason why I see the consumer wanting smaller cuts is that the next generation family is much smaller and does not look too favourably upon leftovers. I know that even myself as a bachelor favour the prospect of eating a small barbequed steak in one sitting, rather then a large one that has to be miked the next day, considering the fact that most meals don't consist entirely of meat.

Uniform ribeyes and sirloins that are about the size of your palm is the next step in the marketing scheme of things. You can already notice the change as Lakeside shyes away from exotic cattle that, as Cedar put it, produce steaks bigger then the dinner plates.

I know some of the Simmentals steers at the local 4-H sales were finishing @ 1650 lbs with carcasses in the 950 lb range. I sure wouldn't mind seeing some of the buyer's faces when they go to pick up that hunk of meat! Even the Herefords are starting to hit the 750-800 dressed weight range, which for me as a Hereford guy is a scary thought. My favourite carcass comes from animals that dress out about 60% at around 650 lbs. Animal didn't take forever to finish and I don't have to be eating the same animal 3 years from now!

[grassfarmer]

C'mon Amazed that theory doesn't stand looking at! A 1300lb steer will marble better because he has been on feed longer? We have breeding, feeding and finish to consider here. An animal can be well marbled at either 1000lb or 1300lb depending on his genetics. Sure, a big Simmental steer that will be mature at 1300lb will be underfinished and lack marbling at 1000lb. Equally some of the best marbling carcases will be closer to 1000-1100 because they are genetically smaller but still have reached their mature size.
There is a theory that mature weight of a slaughter animal will be 100lbs more than his dams weight as a rough guide. That's why I hate to see these big cows weighing 1700-1800lb - who wants ton fat steers?

[Horse]

About 35 yr ago the packers wanted a 850# fat because the t bone fit the restraunt trade british breeds fit that bill real good then . But when we went to high grain rations it was easer to keep them on feed longer than start new cattle on feed .even now I believe I could finish them under 1000# . In about the same time they killed all the good fat sucking calves as baby beef mabey if we were to kill 25% as baby beef it would help the supply problem. I know it would cost more but mabey it would sell just as well.

[amazed]

How many steers have you ever fed out and followed to the rail grassfarmer?

[amazed]

I beleive grassfarmer's theory of finished weight being linked to mature weight is bang on. We do finish our own stock and can trace the steers back to momma. Marbling has shown to be related to time on full feed and I have also heard a lot of talk about marbling characteristics being delayed by growth hormones. We use no growth hormones and with 1200 to 1300 lb. cows see 1250 lb. carcasses grading AAA at 15 and 16 months.
I would question a continental steer grading AAA at 1300 pounds unless he is 1/2 British?
Yes the packers are influencing carcass weight with convenience (for them) in hanging and boxing the product. Are they paying anybody a premium for giving them what they ask for?

[ValueChainFX]

If you want to see the reason for the weight ranges being requested go down to any big grocery store and visit the meat counter. Most large chains have the meat counters lined up the same in every store! Go down the counter and turn the packages over and you will see a number of the tray, the most popular are #2's, 32's, 34's and 38's. The stores receive what they call a plan-o-gram .... yes you guessed it, they tell the meat managers what tray to use for what product and where to put it! Now it used to be they wanted to keep the package under $5.00, now I think it is just a matter of keeping the counters nice and tidy.
Does the meat manager know what size the carcass is? Probably not, but if it doesn't fit his #2 tray he gets on the phone to his head office and complains to the meat desk, who in turn phones the packer and does the dirty watusi all over him for sending to big a primal!
Now you know why the meat counters look so nice a neat, it's the tray size folks not the meat!!!!!! Go figure.

[grassfarmer]

Amazed, We fed out and fattened all our calves in Scotland for the last 5 years I was there. We killed males as bulls at 11-13 months on an ad-lib barley system and heifers off grass at 16-18 months.
Pardon me but since when did you have to prove your credentials before being allowed to comment on Agri-ville?

[amazed]

Where did I question your credentials grassfarmer? If you reread your original post I would say it was you taking me to task. As I was in a rush earlier, I will try to be more clear.

I am assuming you have not grainfed many cattle in Canada and recieved the resulting carcass results? It is fairly common knowledge that marbling is influenced by genetics AND management including time on feed which often means an older animal and quite often a larger carcass. In Canada you will find a higher percentage of animals grading AAA at 1350 lbs. than at 1000-1100 lbs.

As far as "the theory" of steers finishing at 100 lbs. more than their dams weight, that may be a theory more applicable to grass fed cattle but it hardly applies to grain fed cattle which are properly managed and out of 1400-1600 lb. cows.

As you brought up feeding bulls in Scotland I am curious to know how their grading system compares to our AAA beef here for marbling?

Re-holster that gun there grassfarmer. Your credentials are probably as good as anyones on this site.

[grassfarmer]

OK Amazed, I guess a lot of us are firing from the hip just now, frayed tempers and all that!
All I have read about fattening cattle here in relation to marbling indicates that they either have the ability or they don't when they enter the feedlot. I hear that IBP and Western both ultrasound scan some of their calves at entry point and put them into either the marbling or not marbling groups accordingly. The ration needed to maximise the marbling potential of the one lot would be wasted on the non marbling group - is that correct?

As far as our grading in the UK is concerned it is really not comparable to the system here. The majority market is for supermarket beef that is lean and bright red (and usually tough!). Fat is not saleable. We used a Conformation grade system as follows:

E Basically unobtainable
U very high conformation animal
U- high conformation animal
R a good standard animal
O a poorer type animal
0- a plain animal
P an extreme animal
A holstein would grade P or O-,
A hereford x beef steer O or R,
A Charolais x british steer R/U-
A 3/4 bred Limousin steer U
(Bull beef animals always graded a conformation class higher than they would have achieved as steers.)

And fat classes were 3L,3H,4L,4H,5.
3L being minimum acceptable finish, 5 being penalised for over fat.
Most Canadian cattle would grade 4H or 5 on fat cover and R or U-/ conformation.

As I said in most of Europe they don't like fat however those of us who really like beef bought it from small town butchers that still exist in rural areas. They bought the smaller beef animals usually pure "British" and the beef was excellent because it was marbled.