Consider this

[max]

CattleAnnie I to sold all my replacement hiefers to pay bills. Maybe I didnt quite relay my point very well,but you did "everyone needs to stick together and not point fingers" is exactly it. One sector or the other doesn't need to feel slighted if they were not directly supported finacially but to look at the greater good and long term viablity of the industry. Yes there are going to be casualties because of BSE and no things willnot return to pre BSE times for sometime. We need to look forward,and create ways for cow/calf, backgrounders, finishers to become more viable and stable.

I am sorry if I insulted anyone but it does get tiresome listenning to people say that they should get this or that and not the other guy. I grain farm, commercial cows, purebred herd of cows, background 1 to 400 head of calves at any given time,and custom feed cows. I'm a guy with a family on a third generation farm doing what ever it take to keep this farm going so my kids can do the same if they want. I'm grateful for what I have and do and I wish more people would come across the same way instead of saying that the other guy got more than he deserved.

[kato]

We're in this a couple of ways too. Except it's cow/calf, and backgrounding.

I know that the calves we bought last fall are just barely coming out of a negative position now, and I mean just barely. Depending on what we want to consider in the way of expense, that is. If labour and use of machinery are charged to those calves, they are still way down in the hole.

We hung on to our calves last fall, as we usually sell them as short keeps. We did have to go to extraordinary lengths to keep them, though. I won't get into details, but it has been a long long year. I'll tell you, there were some sleepless nights!

As of today, we're glad we did keep them. We are prepared to finish them if need be, as well. Our attitude is nobody is going to get them for free, and if it means we go down in a blaze of glory..so be it! LOL

Bottom line is, any money coming in is good for everybody eventually. Pretty much everyone in this business is pretty good at spending it as quick as they get it.

There are a lot of empty feedlots out there that will need to be filled. Even if it's too late for the 2003 calves, if those boys make some good money this summer, they'll be hot on the market come fall.

[Shonravin]

Cowman!

Coming from a mixed operation but a very committed c/c operation. And always looking to make sense of anothers opinion could you please explain your reason why I should have got a bigger part of this latest Bandaid handout rather than where it is going. (We sold our calves in Dec/03)

[cowman]

It would seem the attitude of a lot of people is give it all to the packers/feeders? After all it will trickle down right?
We have evolved into an industry where in fact the tail wags the dog. The cattle industry was alive and well long before there were any big feedlots or for that matter any big packers? And it might just have to go back that way again, who knows?
I never sold my bred heifers, I kept my heifer calves, but I had the feed and the resources to do that...a lot of people didn't. The Canadian taxpayer is going to be on the hook for close to $1 billion dollars. The Alberta taxpayer close to $500 million. Don't you think they would be happier if the little guy saw some of that money? How many people do you know who sold their replacements and their calves because they just didn't have the feed or the money to buy it? Aren't those the very people who need a hand up? Do we really need to send Rick Pascal or Cor van Ray a few more million? Where does it end?

[rsomer]

I appreciate the comments to the effect that money in one sector of the beef industry benefits each sector of the beef industry. That is a nice sentiment, warm and fuzzy. Too bad it isn’t true.

It has been said many times that the Canadian beef industry will not be the same after BSE, yet many seem to still be view the industry as if it hasn’t changed. Well it has.

I would question whether the Canadian beef industry has represented a cohesive value chain where risks and profits were distributed equitably throughout in the last 15 years but that certainly is not case post BSE and there will never be a cohesive Canadian beef industry again.

In fact there soon won’t be a Canadian beef industry at all. The industry is rapidly moving towards a modified "North American" industry. I say modified because I see the feedlot and packing sectors operating within a North American context while the weaned calf/cull cow sector's competitiveness will be determined domestically within the context of their respective countries.

Yes, in past years if the Alberta feedlots made money on calves they almost invariably had to come back into the Alberta auctions the next fall and bid up on those weaned calves if for no more altruistic reason than to avoid income tax. That is no longer the case. The Alberta feedlots now have unrestricted access to American calves year round. Alberta and Canadian weaned calf producers no longer have a captive market for their calves in the form of the Alberta feedlot. The 33 Alberta feedlots that have a controlling 58% share of Alberta’s feeding industry will spend their BSE Recovery Program dollars in the U.S. unless the Canadian weaned calf producer sells them their calves cheaper.

Weaned calf producers will notice a distinct disconnect between their profitability and the profitability of the rest of the production chain by this fall. Canadian primary weaned calf producers were for the most part totally ignorant of the competitive advantage that was stripped away from when the feedlot sector gained unrestricted access to U.S. weaned calves after almost 40 years. In the very near future the Canadian weaned calf producer will need to retain ownership of his calves well past weaning time if he/she expects to capture any portion of the profitability to be found further down the production chain. Other wise the profitability of the Alberta feedlots just will not filter down to the primary producer level.

[max]

Rsomer, just curious but don't you think the difference in the Canadian vs the US dollar will limit the number of american calves that will be bought up by the Alberta feedlots. I am fearful of the opposite, that the US will be up here when the border opens and use their definate dollar advantage to swallow up the majority of our weaned calves. Where does that leave our feeding industry? Do the big get biggger and the small disappear? Do the feedlots start to own cows to secure a supply of of calves? Then where does that leave the cow/calf man?

My opinion thats why the feeders recieved the lions share of the support money in order the boost their equity to be able to better compete with the US feeders trying to swallow up our cattle this fall. Long term viability, who knows. Your thoughts.

[kato]

The dollar will be a big factor in what happens next. There may not be as many American calves bought up here, but I'll bet there will be a lot custom fed. Just think, the feedlots are very empty, they say they have no money, and the price of feed in the States is in the process of going up. That makes feeding cattle here very cheap. Custom feeding makes you less reliant on equity and bankers.

I think the bigger feedlots will become custom feeders for American interests, and own less calves than ever before. They will be in the pockets of the Alberta/American packers, and will become an industry to itself.

In Manitoba, I would expect there will be more farmers finishing their own calves, and shipping them south as fats, rather than even bothering with Alberta. Alberta doesn't want to bother with us now anyway. We have a market down east too, to a certain extent.

As for a cow-calf guy in Alberta, I really don't know what to think. Maybe a bunch of small to mid size feedlots will come forward and get a market going there. It may be better in the long run for all of us. Leave the big boys alone, and develop our own industry. More small packers serving a more diverse market place.

Hey...here's a thought.. maybe develop a packing industry that's small enough and committed to quality so that it can actually produce beef that's been hung for a proper amount of time and show the consumers what real beef tastes like.

The future is only as bright as we want to make it.

[greybeard]

Kato : you promised to report on your results from some calves at auction .How did that go? I have some I want to send before the yard breaks up.I hate chasing cattle in muddy pens.

[greybeard]

Right on with that hanging beef scenerio kato. I still don't know how grading beef works when it comes to exports. I suspect that Canadian graded boxed beef means nothing to Americans and will never be considered choice. I suspect that the live fats, which have not been moving in a year, are graded as they are killed in the states. Either way. Our American owned, Canadian packers decided that volume and speed made hanging beef negative to their cash flow. What a great opportunity for some of these smaller plants to step in and give the consumer a much nicer product with one change to their processing system. of course the costs will be a bit higher, however, aged beef is, and always has been, superior, and I beleive the consumer will support that superiority with a bit higher price. I always thought that the consumer was always right!

[ALICIA]

Bottom line is (if the people that raise the calves go, then every body goes.)