Different thoughts?

[cowman]

Lately I have been wondering if the way we have been doing things is the right way to go?
Now I will give credit to rpkaiser, grassfarmer and purecountry to stimulating these thoughts.
Perhaps the time has come when we need to consider the type of cow and the animal we raise? Maybe we need to step back from the whole "I sell pounds" concept and focus on what benifits the overall profitability of our farms?
For me the whole concept is a struggle. So don't be hard on me, please?
In some ways I can really see the benifits but oh it is hard to put aside the things we grew up with!

[cakadu]

Cowman - you bring up an interesting question. It is a matter of taking a risk and trying something new (actually, it is old, but everything old is new again, right?)

When we could start putting wheels under the feed, we started getting bigger and bigger, selling to the feedlots, virtually giving away the value that we had in our livestock production systems. I think all livestock producers should be looking at this - well, okay the 4 legged ruminant ones anyway.

It costs us every time we move the feed that we are feeding for winter. Instead of thinking in terms of a feeding sytem, we should be looking at a grazing system. We have to cut the hay, or green feed or silage, rake it, bale it, wrap it or chop it and then move it to where we want it to be, store it, hope it doesn't spoil, then move it to feed the animals.

What if we were to look at leaving something for the animals to graze in the winter - i.e. swath grazing or bale grazing - so that the animals are moving to the feed instead of us taking the feed to them?

Around here, the growing season is about 4 months long - whereas we want the grazing season to be at least 6 months long. That means that the grass is not growing for the 2 months that we need it to grow. Those that are experienced grazing managers say that for every day you let them out on the grass early, you give up 3 days in the fall.

The rest period for grass is not the winter and it has to have enough of a reserve so that it can rejuvenate faster in the spring.

This is the way it used to be done, before we got mechanized, capitalized and tried our hand at economies of scale. The only problem being that the bigger you get, the less efficient you actually are.

One doesn't have to go all out and switch everything over all at once, what one needs to do is a little experimenting, or go out and see what someone in grazing management is doing and the success that they are having.

What we've been doing hasn't been working for us, what have we got to loose in trying something else?

[countryguy]

"but oh it is hard to put aside the things we grew up with"

Cowman you hit the nail exactly on the head with that one.I think it is a feeling that most folks that have been in the business for a while feel.People are afraid of change.Instead of changing they expect to keep doing the same thing over and over again and miraculously get different results.They have the attitude that "what I have been doing all along has gotten me this far and it will work in the future"As we are starting to see this isn't always so.

The younger generation entering the business has nothing to change.They generally pick the path that seems most logical and go from there.I think that is why you are seeing that alot of the folks that are into the "different" breeds of of livestock are younger folks.

[countryguy]

Holy cow countryguy, you made me feel young for a moment there. In fact the change to a more sustainable farm came along about 15 years ago when I was young. At that time a good freind and mentor from Rimbey Alberta started to show me the merits of working with nature, and not for the multinational Agricorruption companies. Even though he is a pessimistic, ornery old fart to be around, even he is admitting that the tide is turning to a more practically natural approach. Every where you turn you see grazing courses, waterway reguvination alternatives, and now even more than ever, direct marketing of farm grown natural beef.
And what about the trend to calve at more natural times of year to avoid inputs and forget about the race for the biggest calf in the fall.
What I like about these trends is that they allow us all to remain individual since there are any number of breeds of cattle and alternative methods that can all achieve similar results.
I look forward to the day that choosing the correct herbicide, fertilizer, and drug products is viewed as the outside. That is the day that our small towns will once again thrive and our farms will draw the folk that love the land for what it is, and the cattle for what they are. I truely beleive that it is not to late to give in to the factory farms and there owners who could give a s&%& how cute that newborn calf is with his little brockle face. Different thoughts, maybe, old fashioned thoughts, maybe, or maybe, just maybe, practical wonderful thoughts.

[cakadu]

In many ways, this is similar to having learned how to use a computer. We all marvel at the 6 year old who can zip his or her way around the computer. They can do this because they don't have to "unlearn" the old ways of doing things.

Still, there is hope because I am amazed at how many older folks and this includes seniors, have a fairly good grasp on computers.

It must have been very hard for them, but they took the bull by the horns and learned it. We are never too old to start learning something new.

[cswilson]

It really changed our operation when we switched from 'pounds orriented' production. Went from a Jan./Feb. totally performance tested herd with all the bells and whistles to a May/June british herd with no extra inputs-its been a breath of fresh air. It really hit home the impact of changing our calving date this year. We've calved several hundred heifers on the grass with less than one percent interference(assists,mothering etc) Well cause of BSE we were unable to sell our heifers this year. I've calved around 85 since 3/07 and it's a nightmare compared to June calving. All the problems we'd forgotten about are now fresh in my memory-mismothering,switching calves,chilled calves etc.There are lots of ranches were built on later calving low input cows-then almost lost during the big calf gold rush and now are clawing their way back running cows the old way. Yes people the old way-we can't pretend we invented sustainable ranching-our granddads had a good handle on it.

[PureCountry]

cswilson, I think you've got a good point. My mom, her Dad and his Dad, have all told me stories about running steers on the river flat, having the odd one cross the river and having to rope them and bring them back across. Pappy( that's my great-grandfather ) had a story about a one-nutted steer that they had to drag across the river once a week. Then there was the cows calving in May and June, and you'd ride out with the sunrise to find the 'ole brockle-face range cow' standing over a wet new baby under a clump of black birch. In July and August, they'd ride every day to make sure the bulls weren't missing a cow in heat while chasing another.
Imagine having the freedom in your day to ride out and separate bulls to ensure all the cows got bred. If the day comes when I can have the time to ride out on a good horse, through black cows on geen grass, I'll consider myself rich.

[cswilson]

Thats pretty much how our calving goes_I custom A.I. all spring so my kids calve cows out-nice when a 12 and 14 yr old can run your outfit.

[kato]

You have to be able to do things that work for you, and that is not necessarily what works for the neighbour.

We send our cows off to pasture, and grow our feed on the land closest to home. The cows are much cheaper and easier to move. This means they have to be all finished calving by the end of May. Leaving them to calve on their own in a pasture 12 miles away is not what we want. Even though they may have fewer problems, they do still have the odd bit of bad luck.

Besides, running down those bush babies with a tagger in your hand can be quite an adventure. They've never seen people, and they sure can be frisky!

I know operations that swear by summer calving, fall calving, and winter calving. It's whatever works on each farm that is right.

Best to have the calves spread out around the calender anyway. That helps cut down on the big runs so that the prices can be a little more stable. If everyone in the country brought identical 500 pound calves to the auction mart in the same three week period, imagine what they would go for!

Diversity is the key to everyone getting a fair return.

[greybeard]

cswilson ,you must see many different management systems in your line of work.Is that why you switched to calving on grass?
Kato is right. I have to have the calving done by May due to other comitments, but I don't think there is any future in cold weather calving. We get on the same treadmill as the grain guys. Spend a buck to make a nickle.
I stopped at Douglas Lake one time. It looked to me like they calved about 1000 head per man. In Feb / March when the nights get cold and windy 150 is too many.You need 2 off-farm jobs to live on 150 cows these days.
Cswilson, from what you see in your travels , how many cows do you need to support a moderate lifestyle.