CCIA tags

[mfearing]

Anybody know where to get these tags?

[chalmers]

My understanding is the tags will be made available directly from the manufacturer and/or distributors in your local area. If you call the Canadian Cattle Identification Agency at 1-877-909-2333 they can tell you who is selling tags in your particular area.

[cowhand]

Why would you want to buy the tags? The mandatory aspects of the Herd ID program won't be enforced immediately (if ever) and the tags offer no value to the cow-calf producer but cost extra. Seems like a waste of money.

[mfearing]

You must be using some other method of ID to keep records but it seems clear there will be enforcement once it becomes mandatory to use the tags. They say it will not be legal to move animals from the farm of origin without them and processing plants won't accept them. The CCIA also says that over half the Canadian herd is exported and the world market is sensitive to disease control (i.e. mad cow in the U.K.). How else do you do it? Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.

[cowhand]

I use ear tags for my record keeping. But the CCIA tags are going to cost more for sure, if only because of the cost of administration of the program which is built into the price of the tag. And what does the farmer get for this extra cost, well nothing at all. Up to now the federal government bore the cost of tracing animals back to the original owner, now that cost will be downloaded to the producer. I wouldn't mind paying more for the tags if I got some value in return, like carcass information, but as it is I get nothing but pay more. The vast, vast majority of our exported beef goes to the U.S. and they don't have a requirement for Herd ID, which makes me wonder why we find it necessary. The truth of the matter is that the U.S. producer wouldn't stand for being forced into a mandatory program like this but somehow the powers that be feel that us Canadian producers will. Are we really that gullible? Time will tell.

[jmillang]

The americans are looking at a system for health traceback. They are further ahead of us in Canada with all the alliances and contracted supply programs (if you call captive supply being ahead) The US actually has an ex officio rep sitting on the CCIA board of directors. The other thing the american beef industry is very much a domestic supply oriented, if I remember right they only export about 10% of their beef (which is equivalent to the entire Canadian herd). Just look what happens to ground beef prices (in the US) every time we have a e coli outbreak in the US. You are right the tags will be a bit more, but when the system gets up and running the increase in people tagging their animals will increase the number of tags being used and such bigger volumes tend to drive prices down. The number (I remember) of actual producers tagging their calves is less than 50%, now that does not mean that only 50% of the calves are tagged just the number of producers. Keep up the dialogue we need more questions and especially answers about this program.

[cowhand]

I don't have too much more to say about this but will add these points. The Americans are looking at Herd ID sure enough but theirs is voluntary and is aimed at attracting producers by offering them something of value, such as carcass information feedback and improving herd genetics. Bottom line, there are two ways to get producers to go along with something like this tagging. You can offer them something of value in return for tagging the animals as they leave the farm or force them into it by making the tagging mandatory and punishing those who choose not to go along with fines and restrictions. Where I come from, we believe you catch more flies with honey. So why not make the program attractive to producers by offering us cattle guys a little honey, maybe it is carcass information, maybe it is something else to get us to buy in willingly on our own before running to the feds to add more regulations and costs to our business. I think the people behind this need to give it a bit more thought.

[mfearing]

I am hearing the tags are selling for around $1.05 for the small ones on up to $1.50 or so for the largest ones. How does that compare to what you are now paying? The CCIA charges $0.20 per tag for the number, the rest is tag cost and the most expensive part is the labor and marketing. The $0.20 seems high but I'll bet the tag manufacturers have lowered their prices quite a bit in view of the volume potential which may make up for it. The CCIA under the CCA definitely expects, and I am certain will be pushing, for programs that feed carcus informaiton back to the producer. Back to the cost of the tag, manufacturers are volume driven meaning cost generally goes down when more of the same thing is done repeatedly. Many other countries that have national tagging programs have tag costs way down just because of the volume and effeciencies gained as a result. What is a tag worth to you? Thanks again. Mike

[kato]

I work at a vet clinic. I was talking to our sales rep (Z-Tags) about when the tags would be available. He was informed from above that it may be as soon as the end of March. Another rep from a different company told me last week that they would have been out by now, except that the government and tag companies were in a disagreement over who would keep records. (Typical) I was quoted about 1.50 cost to the producer for large tags as well, but we'll have to wait until they arrive to know for sure. It would have been nice to have them in time for calving, and save a tag. Only time will tell how the system will work, but my opinion is it's better to be pro-active on something like this, than scrambling to clean up a mess later.

[cowhand]

What is a tag worth to me? I remember paying something like $5 for a blue tag in the late 70s, early 80s. For my five bucks I got back carcass information which I thought was more than worth the cost of the tag. There were no fines if I didn't use the tag, I did it on my own. That is my point. If they want us to put tags in, make it worth our while. Give us something of value for our money and effort instead of hit us over the head with fines. I think they are asking a lot of us ranchers to spend money and change the ways we do things for something as warm and fuzzy as the 'good of the industry'. I am more interested in cash in my jeans. If something pays me back I don't need a mandatory program with fines to make me do it. I am with you in thinking that carcass info will eventually be available, but why not have the CCIA get their act together and have it available up front right away. Most of the countries that are looking at tagging their cows like this are going the voluntary route, why aren't we? I am going to get off the soapbox now, thanks for letting me rant on. No one will listen anyway, the CCIA is just going to do what they want. Who is going to stop them? And if we go along with this kind of approach to raising cattle, using fines and regulations, mandatory this and compulsory that, instead of common sense and the profit motive, well I guess it is our fault and we deserve what we get.

[cowman]

I just bought some All-flex maxi tags at the U.F.A. in Red Deer, Alta. for 99 cents each. If the same tag with the I.D. number on it is $1.50 then the extra cost is 51 cents not the 20 cents we've been told. Sounds to me like we're getting the shaft once again!

[rsomer]

If I may offer a few comments, I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I don't see the cost of the tag being the most important issue in this debate, rather it is who pays the cost and who benefits. I believe it is a given that some form of traceback is valuable to the industry. At issue is how to best achieve this result. From a policy standpoint there are four broad policy options to determine who pays and who benefits from industry policy choices such as Herd ID: -market determination -subsidies -taxes -regulations Up to this point Canada's beef herd health system was based on subsidies i.e. the federal government paid for the entire program. During times of crisis the program was active and herd tagging did tag place but the cattleman bore no cost. In the years since we have had a major disease problem our herd health still has been monitored and protected by the federal government at no cost to the industry, again a subsidy. An example of taxes being used to support a policy decision would be the old Horn Tax. Although it was not mandatory that horns be removed from livestock, a per head tax was levied against horned animals. Although there are still those in the industry that support a horn tax, for the most part such a tax was found to be unsuccessful in achieving the desired policy result (fewer horns on cattle). Regulations are mandated government actions that utilize the stick to ensure compliance in that penalties for noncompliance are imposed. Regulations shift the cost of the policy to the offending party as opposed to subsidies which spread the cost of the policy over a much broader spectrum of society. In the Herd ID program, the cost of the policy is being born by the cow calf producer even though it is doubtful that a cow calf operator would knowingly be the cause of a herd health problem, rather more likely he/she would be the unhappy victim of such an occurrence. With increased government budget restraints regulation is becoming a more common means to deal with policy issues. The fourth broad option is market determination. This is the option that the U.S. industry is considering. In this option the costs and benefits of the policy are set under actual market conditions. For market determination to be successful in a Herd ID program, the producer would need to realize a benefit from participating. Market determination reflects basic self interest economic motives of profit maximization as well as concepts of stewardship, what is right, concern about future generations and peer pressure. The marketplace is very effective at allocating costs and benefits throughout society and has, broadly speaking, been the preferred choice of the cattle industry in the past. I am concerned that this Herd ID program as it is presented is unfairly putting the cost of this policy decision on the cow calf producer even though that segment of the industry is not necessarily to blame for industry health problems. Viable alternatives would seem to be subsidize the entire cost of program as was the case in the past (in which case the cost of the program is spread over the broader society) or use the marketplace to encourage producers to participate. The marketplace will determine which segment of the industry most benefits from the policy and efficiently allocate the costs to that segment, whether it be the cow calf operator, backgrounder, feedlot or the packing industry. It is entirely possible that our American competitors will gain an advantage over Canadian producers by basing the American Herd ID policy on a market based, value added system that will serve to improve their herd genetics and product quality as well as addressing health issues. Reference: 'Agriculture and Food Policy, Fourth Edition' Knutson,Penn,Flichbaugh

[myboyjeff]

I have concerns about the confidentiality of information. At this time the CCIA is stating that information about the producer will be strictly confidential. Things have been known to change. How does the producer know that their information will not at some time be given to outside agencies? I am not suggesting that the average cattle producer has something to hide. Personal information is just that.

[jmillang]

from what I understand the only info that is there is contact information which is obatinable from many sources, free or for purchase. The relationship between the number of tags you buy in a block and how many cows you have just is not there, there are strategeies, maybe purchase 3 years worth or only buy 1 years worth etc. to safegaurd that info. I do understand you concern, but the company that has the infrastructure is of top class and not very likely to let it out. As for the CCIA they have said they will keep it confidential, but I can only trust them.

[rip]

I am currently a director on the CCA and am finding this dialog very interesting. At our recent annual meeting in Ottawa many questions and concerns were expressed to the CCIA. They have assured us that these concerns will be addressed and appropriate actions will be taken. To adress some of what I have heard in the previous dialog I would like to offer some of my own opinions. There seems to be some concern as to what benefit this really is to the producer I feel that although the CCIA is not promoting it information such as carcass reporting will become availabe in the very near future but because this is a health assurance program they are not promoting other options at this time and are concentrating on the value of traceback as their main agenda. To me, whether you call it mandatory or voluntary doesn't matter, I look forward to this as an exceptional management tool and anyone who is serious about marketing their cattle at the best price and keeping our export markets safe is only being a good manager by using the best tools available. If I am using the tags and an outbreak of something such as BSE were to occur at least I would know if my herd was affected or not. Those who were not on the program would automatically fall into the catagory of an affected herd and one only has to look at what happened in Great Britian to know what would happen to your herd. You wouldn't have one left to manage! It has also been made clear to us by countries such as Japan (who will become a VERY major importer of our beef) that if we do not come up with a program they will be looking elsewhere for their supplies. Australia and New Zealand already have programs in place. One just has to look at where Francw and Denmark might be after the recent diagonosis of BSE in these two countries if they didn't have some sort of program. As to the extra cost I am willing to pay an extra cost of $0.50 per animal ($150.00) per year to insure that our industry goes ahead instead of falling behind. This is not government enforced legeslation but a proactive and visionary program that has been developed by the cattle industry to protect the producers, their product, and the cattle industry in Canada. I say we get behind it and try to make it work and help the CCIA work out the wrinkles so that we can keep the reputation of the best poduct in the world.