Profit before Production

[cakadu]

Rsomer I understand your concerns and when you drive home and look at the books and the realities of life as we currently know it, there is some difficulty in thinking that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Don is quite upfront about 2 things - that they made a lot of mistakes before getting to where they are now and the other is that what they do might not work for everyone else. He states that he is not an expert on your land and can't come in and decide for you; what he can do is provide you with the tools that may help you to make better decisions.

Nerves has stated that as well - they made mistakes along the way and now feels in a better position going into the future.

Maybe corporate farming, nor holistic farming on their own will be sustainable in the long run - it is more likely to be a matter of finding that balance that works right for you.

It is hard to shift the old ways of thinking - there is no doubt about that. It likely doesn't hurt to listen to what these people have to say and look at things with "fresh" eyes. Becoming more aware of what you are doing is a huge first step in gaining a better understanding of what you want and need and what you need to do in order to achieve those things.

K - know what you want
F- find out what you're getting
C - change what you need to in order to get what you want

[cswilson]

I've known Don all my life-go to brandings with them all spring-they run a very strong family based operation. I've had some real dood discussions with him and his son's-we don't always agree but you do go home with something to think about. One thing you can say about Campbell's is they are not afraid to make changes in their operation-this is better than the my cost of production is x dollars so the market should reward me with x y return philosophy.

[cowman]

The problem with any type of course or presentation is you need to be able to take from it what you need. I always figure that the "expert" knows something but why would I think he knows everything? He doesn't know me and he doesn't know my circumstances. However I also believe approach everything with an open mind and realize everyone can teach you something? If you go to one of these things and you come away with one thing you can use or it gets your mind working and thinking then I believe it was time and money well spent.
The whole idea of being a low cost producer and being able to adjust and adapt is a good one but the bottom line is we need more money in primary agriculture if it is going to be sustainable. Young people are not buying the message of living poor to feed the world? And if we don't get some more new blood into agriculture
then it won't be sustainable?

[cakadu]

Cowman, if young people aren't buying into the "message" you are giving them, then what is wrong with changing the message?

I'm all for being realistic and not looking at things with rose colored glasses and people need to know the realities.

The producer of tomorrow is being taught to think and do things differently. If the way it has been done isn't working, then what will make it work?

There are many things that we can't be the lowest cost producer at and quite frankly I don't think we want to be because the mindset with being the lowest cost is that you can sell it for the lowest price and that is where we run into trouble.

Younger people are also perhaps not buying into the notion that we "are feeding the world", rather we are forcusing on those customers who are willing to pay for what we are producing for their needs.

We got really good at production and that hasn't helped us over the long term because we have produced ourselves into taking the lowest price i.e. over supply.

Agriculture as we knew it is changing and change is never easy. We are having to shift paradigms that have held for two or three generations.

We should be willing to at least listen to new ideas and thoughts like those of PureCountry and others like him. He's young and got lots of energy and is looking at farming from a different perspective.

It's a new day and it's time to look at things in a new way. Trying to understand and maintain a profit centre on the farm is a first step in shifting paradigms. You're right when you say that not everything that everyone else does will necessarily work for you, however, some parts of it just might.

[cowman]

Linda I was never saying that guys like Purecountry are wrong to think the way they do. But I am saying that somehow we need to put more money into the pockets of the primary produce? Now if that works by direct marketing or holistic management then fine but I don't believe that will solve the problem for the majority of farmers? Consider the vast prairies and the cattle and grain industries? Can they all direct market or go "au natural"? Maybe but will they? No. And the ones standing at the end of the day might very well be the most inefficient producers...with deep pockets who couldn't care less if they make any money. When I hear people talking about "quality of life" and to hell with profit I know for this old boy it is time to quit! Because I will be damned if I will work for free so I can have the dubious distinction of playing cowboy!
A whole lot of people seem to enjoy playing farmer and living that pastoral life, no matter what the cost! And I'm not saying that is a bad thing, afterall we're all free spirits and can spend our money as we like. The really sad thing is when they don't even know they are working for free? Or are in strong denial? Maybe they need a business consultant to show them the real world?

[ValueChainFX]

Quality of life and profit are always a part of the overall picture (even holistic) The challenge most in the industry have today is to make sure there is a total continuous supply chain. Be that a direct to the customer or through the supply chain. Checks and balances are required and if they are not there we are setting ourselves up for another big fall. What happens the first time someone links a direct-marketed product to an illness? Cowman is right on when he talks about putting more money in the producers’ pockets! You become a business when you set your own margins. At the moment we all know that our provincial plants are not doing the best job in the world. In fact they need to be looked after just to get them up to some sort of real standard. Also we all know that producers are doing everything they can to sell directly off their own farms (ie sell the animal live and kill it for their customer) this is not legal and we all know that. The rule is that these folks must either be a part of the family of the owner (direct family) or have owned the animal for 30 days! A long-term solution is needed and some of us are working on that!

[rsomer]

Cowman: I agree with many of your comments but my impression was that Don Campbell cares very much if he makes money and profit is important to his operation, based on his talk. He points out that quality of life is important in that we cannot compare our lifestyle to the lifestyle of someone who works on the rigs and makes lots of money but is away from home and living in camps. You said "A whole lot of people seem to enjoy playing farmer and living that pastoral life, no matter what the cost." My impression is Don Campbell is not playing farmer, he runs a reasonably large operation, but he does seem to take some time during the day to enjoy what he is doing.

"Maybe they need a business consultant to show them the real world?" Could be but I think Don Campbell could show the business consultant a thing or two at the same time. One business consultant will show you what a bad investment farming while another consultant would show you what a good investment farming is, depending on the consultant. I think Don Campbell would prefer to see farming as a good investment.

[cakadu]

Looking at profit before production means that you do what makes you money or can potentially make you money and you drop the rest. In Holistic Management, you look at the totality of what you are doing, not just in isolated blocks. They are strong believers in if it doesn't make you money then why are you doing it?

Rsomer is right - Don runs about 600 cows and the example he showed was that by feeding the cows in the field through a system of electric fence and bales, they saved $67,000 in feed related costs. What they do is put out enough bales for the cows to eat in 2 days and that way they are putting the manure and urine on the field for them, thus saving the cost of having to haul all the manure out and spread it. The cows are already doing that for them. Every 2 days the cows are moved. Yes, it's intensive, but the savings sort of reflect the effort.

They calve beginning in late April to May I believe it is and save on all of those costs too. It has to be working because it is supporting 3 families.

No, not everyone can go the natural route and for some reason as producers we want to "commoditize" the things we grow which inevitably drives the price down. The people who are good at selling their products direct from the farm gate, or even further into the system will receive the value for their efforts.

Its a matter of setting things up so that they work for you instead of you working for them.

[cakadu]

Looking at profit before production means that you do what makes you money or can potentially make you money and you drop the rest. In Holistic Management, you look at the totality of what you are doing, not just in isolated blocks. They are strong believers in if it doesn't make you money then why are you doing it?

Rsomer is right - Don runs about 600 cows and the example he showed was that by feeding the cows in the field through a system of electric fence and bales, they saved $67,000 in feed related costs. What they do is put out enough bales for the cows to eat in 2 days and that way they are putting the manure and urine on the field for them, thus saving the cost of having to haul all the manure out and spread it. The cows are already doing that for them. Every 2 days the cows are moved. Yes, it's intensive, but the savings sort of reflect the effort.

They calve beginning in late April to May I believe it is and save on all of those costs too. It has to be working because it is supporting 3 families.

No, not everyone can go the natural route and for some reason as producers we want to "commoditize" the things we grow which inevitably drives the price down. The people who are good at selling their products direct from the farm gate, or even further into the system will receive the value for their efforts.

Its a matter of setting things up so that they work for you instead of you working for them.

[cswilson]

Believe me Campbell's are a very profit oriented ranch operation but not at any cost. Not every thing they or anybody else will work for everybody everywhere but some of their management practices will. For example probably 12 years ago I spent three hours at a kitchen table debating Feb. vs May calving with Don-I was full of P and V and loved that winter calving-exotic high producing cow. Now I'm not sure exactly what I'm full of but were running 3 times as many british cows that calve in May and June. Our financial situation is much better and our quality of life is immeasureably improved. Calving is fun now not a death march like it used to be-I still don't necessarily agree with everything Campbell's do but our respective operations are alot more similar than they were 12 years ago.