Profit before Production

[cakadu]

At the Beyond BSE seminar in Innisfail today, I heard Don Campbell speak and he and his wife Bev are but two of a half dozen certified holistic management instructors in Canada.

Don made several interesting points in his talk and I'd like to know what you think.

First, we have gotten really good at production in the last 50 years or so and what that increased production has gotten us is mininmal or non-existant profit. We need to shift the paradigm and think about how we are going to make a profit and then use production methods that will help us to get that profit.

We need to look after the land sustainably and work with nature instead of against it.

Secondly, we tend to think in terms of standard of living instead of quality of life. Marketers and commercial enterprises try to make us feel like we are missing out if we aren't driving that big gas guzzling SUV, have a 50 inch tv or live in a 3000 sq. ft. house.

We need to be thinking about what constitutes quality of life for us as individuals. If we aren't happy as individuals, then we can't be happy in marriages or in any other kind of relationship.

Thirdly - make the cattle work for you instead of working for the cattle (or in my case sheep, but it could be any livestock.) It costs money to haul feed everywhere, as well as hauling the manure out somewhere. If you feed out in the pasture where the cows can be kept all winter, then you spread out the manure and the urine, capture the nutrient value in those by-products and lessen your costs considerably.

The messages are fairly simple and clear - putting them into practice and shifting paradigms is the hard part.

What do you think?

[GrnAsMoss]

As a teenager entering the workforce I was instilled with the advice to pursue my passion. So I got my animal science credentials and pursued my passion for cattle, learning everything I could about them, I expected them to eventually support me.
Now I advise my children (American Idol wanna bees) to pursue a trade, after what the plumber charged me and the lineman who installed my rural telephone and the electrician, they seem the most obtainable quick return on education out there.Cattle are the luxury of a steady income,going the way of the backyard horse. Embrace change the "experts" say. Although living rurally is great, my modest vehicle and home still need their utilities paid and shelves stocked.I'll be damned if I end up living out my golden years like my poverty stricken elders.

[jensend]

i have taken don and bev's course this past winter. what they say makes sense and we are moving to adopt the practices that they teach. whether you call it holism or ranching for profit they teach the same principle. the campbell's put more emphasis on finding a lifestyle that is satisfying and building a profitable business around it. in the long run that is more sustainable in my view.

[ycp]

Just wondering how big their suv is, and how many rooms are in their house?? Seems to me that people who give lectures and seminars are "used to be's" so I guess that makes us "wanna be's" The basis of these lectures is good and you usually go away with a feeling of "I can do this" but give or take a day or two and you're right back into your usual track.

[nerves]

We tried this 8 years ago. We got rid of the machinery and stock piled grass. All our automobiles are 20 years old from the honda 4trax to the diesel truck. We live in a second hand trailer,we calve in april. We timed our breeding season around the longest day of the year to best advantage of grass growth. We don"t have of farm jobs. We have 6 quarters of land.(we have also have got payments to my parents) We had 2 hundred head of cows. Now here we are eight years later we have the same trailer same automobiles down to 100 head of cows (thanks to the drought) As of last year no longer buy feed grow it all just about went broke. What we learned along the way was you have to know your land what makes it live how to get the water back into the soil we experimented lots and tried lots of differnt things. It wasn"t about what cows do best on what grass because if it was we all would be raising buffalo. What it was all about was knowing the land and finding ways to market your product.We now feel there is hope we are making a living in a extremly tuff time without going out to work. We adopted alot of new ideas and came up with more on our own I don"t know if this holistic I call it the school of hard knocks.

[rsomer]

I heard Don Campbell speak at another meeting. He is an impressive speaker who has a nice folksy style which is refreshing after sitting through a day of Power Point presentations. Like cakadu I was impressed by his presentation. It certainly left you feeling good about agriculture.

As I read cakadu’s message I was left wondering just what is a "certified holistic management instructor". If that is Don Campbell’s claim to fame how did he earn this impressive title and just what does it mean. Who is the certifying body and are they credible?

Although I really liked his presentation, feel good warm and fuzzy does not change the economic realities that exist in the real world. Will Don Campbells holistic approach win the day and become the future of agriculture or is the future of agriculture either mega factory farms or off farm jobs. Is quality of life the measurement that will determine the successful farm of the future or will return on equity win out the day.

Even though I liked Don Campbells presentation, if agriculture does evolve to achieve a quality of life that is envied by the wider population, the wider population will just come and buy it as they will have the money while the farmer has the quality of life. I am not convinced Don Campbells view of the future is sustainable either.

[kato]

If everyone does the same thing, there is NO premium market.

If you don't like what you are doing for a living, money isn't going to make up for it.

I always told my kids, "Find a job that you like so much you would do it for free. Then find a way to make a living at it."

If you can combine those two elements, you've got it made. Very few people ever do. I know lots of people with tons of cash that I wouldn't change places with for anything.

[grassfarmer]

rsomer, I would assume the speaker you are talking about will be certified at the Savory Holistic Management Centre in New Mexico. They have an educator certifying course of 5 weeks, run over 2 years which leads to qualification. It costs @$13,000 US to participate.

Before everyone jumps up and says it's just a con who are these people to decide they are good enough to train people I would urge anyone who has not done so to read Savory's "Holistic Resource Management". I challenge anyone not to be impressed by this guy's vision and understanding of nature, the environment and management.

One thing that sticks in my mind is the fact that Plato was able to walk across present day North Africa - Libya etc without leaving the shade of a tree! These countries that are now desert have been created by man's degradation of the water cycles and agrarian practices. Savory understands the problem and has discovered the way to prevent it. Surely an important lesson for farmers in Western Canada?

[jensend]

rsomer - don campbell was certified by allan savory's holistic resource management institute. i have a lot of respect for the campbell's because they do walk the talk. in their course they showed a video of a speech savory gave in which he blamed all the ills of the world on the loss of biodiversity. this seems like a stretch but the idea that people have more trouble coping as they get further from what sustains life probably has some validity. i think you can question the sustainability of their philosophy but if present methods were sustainable i don't think we would continually see fewer bigger farms/ranches. as you point out, the big advantage to the present lifestyle of farmers/ranchers is that nobody wants to be like us - even our kids are walking away.

[jensend]

one other thing - i have also taken the ranching for profit course and the two courses offer the same principles and methods. maybe ranching for profit has more credibility because of its title.

[cakadu]

Rsomer I understand your concerns and when you drive home and look at the books and the realities of life as we currently know it, there is some difficulty in thinking that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Don is quite upfront about 2 things - that they made a lot of mistakes before getting to where they are now and the other is that what they do might not work for everyone else. He states that he is not an expert on your land and can't come in and decide for you; what he can do is provide you with the tools that may help you to make better decisions.

Nerves has stated that as well - they made mistakes along the way and now feels in a better position going into the future.

Maybe corporate farming, nor holistic farming on their own will be sustainable in the long run - it is more likely to be a matter of finding that balance that works right for you.

It is hard to shift the old ways of thinking - there is no doubt about that. It likely doesn't hurt to listen to what these people have to say and look at things with "fresh" eyes. Becoming more aware of what you are doing is a huge first step in gaining a better understanding of what you want and need and what you need to do in order to achieve those things.

K - know what you want
F- find out what you're getting
C - change what you need to in order to get what you want

[cswilson]

I've known Don all my life-go to brandings with them all spring-they run a very strong family based operation. I've had some real dood discussions with him and his son's-we don't always agree but you do go home with something to think about. One thing you can say about Campbell's is they are not afraid to make changes in their operation-this is better than the my cost of production is x dollars so the market should reward me with x y return philosophy.

[cowman]

The problem with any type of course or presentation is you need to be able to take from it what you need. I always figure that the "expert" knows something but why would I think he knows everything? He doesn't know me and he doesn't know my circumstances. However I also believe approach everything with an open mind and realize everyone can teach you something? If you go to one of these things and you come away with one thing you can use or it gets your mind working and thinking then I believe it was time and money well spent.
The whole idea of being a low cost producer and being able to adjust and adapt is a good one but the bottom line is we need more money in primary agriculture if it is going to be sustainable. Young people are not buying the message of living poor to feed the world? And if we don't get some more new blood into agriculture
then it won't be sustainable?

[cakadu]

Cowman, if young people aren't buying into the "message" you are giving them, then what is wrong with changing the message?

I'm all for being realistic and not looking at things with rose colored glasses and people need to know the realities.

The producer of tomorrow is being taught to think and do things differently. If the way it has been done isn't working, then what will make it work?

There are many things that we can't be the lowest cost producer at and quite frankly I don't think we want to be because the mindset with being the lowest cost is that you can sell it for the lowest price and that is where we run into trouble.

Younger people are also perhaps not buying into the notion that we "are feeding the world", rather we are forcusing on those customers who are willing to pay for what we are producing for their needs.

We got really good at production and that hasn't helped us over the long term because we have produced ourselves into taking the lowest price i.e. over supply.

Agriculture as we knew it is changing and change is never easy. We are having to shift paradigms that have held for two or three generations.

We should be willing to at least listen to new ideas and thoughts like those of PureCountry and others like him. He's young and got lots of energy and is looking at farming from a different perspective.

It's a new day and it's time to look at things in a new way. Trying to understand and maintain a profit centre on the farm is a first step in shifting paradigms. You're right when you say that not everything that everyone else does will necessarily work for you, however, some parts of it just might.

[cowman]

Linda I was never saying that guys like Purecountry are wrong to think the way they do. But I am saying that somehow we need to put more money into the pockets of the primary produce? Now if that works by direct marketing or holistic management then fine but I don't believe that will solve the problem for the majority of farmers? Consider the vast prairies and the cattle and grain industries? Can they all direct market or go "au natural"? Maybe but will they? No. And the ones standing at the end of the day might very well be the most inefficient producers...with deep pockets who couldn't care less if they make any money. When I hear people talking about "quality of life" and to hell with profit I know for this old boy it is time to quit! Because I will be damned if I will work for free so I can have the dubious distinction of playing cowboy!
A whole lot of people seem to enjoy playing farmer and living that pastoral life, no matter what the cost! And I'm not saying that is a bad thing, afterall we're all free spirits and can spend our money as we like. The really sad thing is when they don't even know they are working for free? Or are in strong denial? Maybe they need a business consultant to show them the real world?