Hill Breed question?

[cowman]

How do these "Hill" breeds perform in the feedlot and how do the feeders accept them? Galloway, Welsh Black, Luing? How heavy do they finish?
Would the Salers be considered a "Hill" breed as they were supposedly raised in the mountains? Incidently some of the Salers had a lot going for them...they were really good cows. If they weren't so darned wild.

[cswilson]

Cowman I have an A.I. client that custom feeds his galloway/longhorn cross calves at Highland in Vegreville-I'm sure they even sell on the grid I'll check out his closeout for u. As for Salers Bud Maynard in Mointana/Wyoming had an article with his closeouts for ten years on his Saler calves his average net on I think like 10,000 head was $66 U.S. If they would of got that dosposition thing conquered were great cattle. I remember being pursued around the pen at Bill Hunts at Endiang by some of the first halfbloods born-Vailliant daughters.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, speaking for Luings only, I'm told they grade with an exceptionally high number of AAA's whether they are in a feedlot for a while or as grassfeds with grain for the last 6 weeks. Of course they won't grow at 4lbs a day in the feedlot - they are a maternal breed and steers are the byproduct. Some of the feedlots that feed less barley and more forage would find them similar to straight herefords to feed.
As for Salers unless you have them on an intensive grain ration they will turn into big plain cattle that take for ever to finish.
A friend of mine in Scotland used both Salers and Limousin bulls and said it made weaning calves easy - just bring everything into the corrals, clap your hands once and all the saler calves jumped the fence, clap twice and all the limo's jumped out - then you just turn your cows out!

[gwf]

This happens to be one of best laughs I've had in a while. Your friend in Scotland has a pretty good handle on their temperament alright.

[gwf]

Don't mean to portion out your question cowman, but..... First of all, you have chosen to ask about Hill Breeds. I guess these cattle lived in some pretty hilly country at home in the UK and France, however the more common trait amonst them is the hair. I will not comment on the Saler cattle other than to say that some breeders who tended to choose thicker, quieter cattle have created some pretty good stock. Saler cattle are very different structurally than any of the other breeds mentioned.

We have been finishing our own (Welsh Black and Galloway) cull steers and heifers from our own program the last few years and last years results showed cattle finished at 15 and 16 months with no hormones, and a higher percentage roughage than the average Alberta feedlot ration. These cattle cut out at about 62% and graded about 75% triple A. Remember these are steers and heifers from our bottom end,
as our top end are sold or retained for breeding stock.

I would tend to look at the acceptence of Galloway and Welsh Black cattle as feeders as being a non conforming scapegoat. You would find a very hard time filling a 200 head feedlot pen of these cattle. Therefore when one of the hairy little buggars comes through the ring he is usually shunned. The crossbreds that are announced as Angus with a great hair coat, or Simmental British cross, never get the recognition of the base breed.
One final note on acceptence has been the promotion of the breeds as Hardy, and tough. This has brought out a pile of good old boys who have done the breed nothing but harm. Some of our first experiences visiting farms with Galloway and Welsh Black cattle had me on the verge of calling the SPCA.
One such "Lawyer" drove into a brand new five wire fenced pasture with his $60,000.00 dually pickup to show me his half starved cow herd, proud as punch with his winter feed bill. The only thing I wanted to punch was him. When he pursued me for a sale, I politely faxed him a note telling him that his second carreer needed some major attention. Didn't get sued, and the A hole is now out of the cattle business. This is only one glaring example, and there are a ton of good stories to go along with it. However, just as the Saler breeders struggle to shed the temperment story, we try our best to find the poor little under fed Galloways before they get laughed at some more in the Auction Market.

It is funny how life works sometimes. These funny little breeds who have and will be shunned by our main stream markets are now challenging, and winning over chefs in the best restaurants in Calgary. World renowned Chefs who will not go back to Mainsteam branded products. How good it feels to have these men come to my table in their restaurant and compliment my product.

Okay enough already.

Welsh Black and Galloway cattle are as good as any breed. Individual choices will give you very impressive gains, high feed efficiency, and a carcass as good as any breed out there. Our branded products are gaining in popularity to a point where we cannot supply demand. The wonderful part about this story is that it is not a scheme, or a get rich quick plot. It is simply a group of grass roots producers taking a sows ear and turning it into a silk purse. No $5000.00 bulls with a world of promises attached.

Maybe a bit more than you asked for cowman, but I had a few moments to spare.

[cswilson]

Back to my post I had a bit of a brain fart it was Bud Christianson I think not Bud Maynard who fed all those Saler calves.

[grassfarmer]

Rpkaiser, these are great results you are getting with your cattle - surely in time the results will filter back through to the cattle feeders and the breeds will get the attention they deserve at the auction? I agree with you that these cattle are equal to any other breed - but you can't get round this fashion thing!
The Galloway breed in the UK had an ad campaign in the late 1970s that promoted them as being able to "live on next to nothing" and it attracted a lot of people that took it litterly. Ultimately it shows how tough the Galloway is that it can survive where nothing else will but of course they then are perceived as a breed that doesn't perform.

[PureCountry]

Grassfarmer I love your story about the weaning of Salers and Limousins. My neighbours used to have purebred Limos, and they have a crowding tub with overhead pipes 10 ft. off the ground. I used to tease them that the damn pipes were just high enough that I couldn't grab them to get out of the way, but just low enough for the Limos to jump out!
When I was in Scotland and England, the Salers I saw at the Highland and Royal Shows were pretty ugly specimens. The Highlands and Galloways I saw there however, were absolutely mouth-watering. I don't remember seeing one I didn't like. The Black Angus bull we had raised that was being shown there was led into the Parade of Champions along side the Champion Highland - a heifer belonging to the Royal family. Princess Anne was there admiring her family's stock, and it was quite an experience.
As for the 'Hill Breeds', I hope they continue to grow their populations in Canada. It's a real shame that more of those great specimens couldn't be imported here, to expand the gene pool. Who knows? Maybe cowman you'll get a big fat cheque from gas wells and start your own herd. You could call it 'The Born-Again-Believer Highland Fold'. Ha!

[magpie]

Hang on a minute here fellows, we’ve introduced saler bulls into our herd and haven’t used a calf puller but only3-4 times in the last 5 years. It sits hanging mostly on the wall collecting rust. We have some pure saler cows that are as gentle as any breed out there. They make great mothers, lots of milk, nice tucked in udders. We had calf’s born in 15-25 min and when they hit the ground they are fighting to get up. We have saler crossed up to angus, charlois and semimetal. As far as temperament, we find that our pure char and angus are the ornery one’s, not all but the odd one. I think every breed probably has the odd one that is wild and those should hit the road. I think saler’s probably got a bad rap from the start but what I have found is that the breeding has really improved. I sure don’t miss holding up that large calf to the udder and C sections are almost non existence. Calving seems a little easier now and I think salers and saler crossed mother’s had something to do with it, but everyone has their own preference in cattle and I respect the merits each breed brings.One more thing I would Like to mention is that when they are crossed up they finish up quite well.

[grassfarmer]

PureCountry, I've got some Luing semen for sale that we brought in from Scotland last year - maybe we could interest Cowman in doing a cross breed comparison? we all know he wants to keep cows so lets give him some easy care ones!

[grassfarmer]

Magpie Salers certainly have a reputation for easy calving that's for sure. Why do people in this country get so excited about calving cows - you hear lots of talk of calf pullers and
c-sections. Surely with todays genetic information and management practices mature cows (had more than 1 calf) should calve unassisted. I only expect to help malpresentations or twins - last year I had 1 of each to assist and the other 97 cows calved themselves. I have a neighbour who gets all excited with close circuit TV, winter calving, he must assist 50-60% of his mature cows and takes lots to the vet. Talk about making life difficult - no wonder guys complain about the cattle job!

[PureCountry]

Grassfarmer, I assist as many calves at my neighbour's place as I do on my own. I don't know why, other than they breed very big framed bulls to very big framed cows strictly for the purpose of pushing weaning weights to the max. They have a half dozen c-sections per year, and assist about 30% on 200 head. Of course many factors play into calving difficulties, but I can't understand why they have to push their luck, when it just isn't worth it once you factor in man-hours per cow. I see it like this - getting a calf from conception to consumer is a damn big job, so why not make it as easy as possible? It's never easy, but it can sure as Hell be more enjoyable and less stressful.

[cowman]

I found an old beef book that sort of got me thinking about these cattle. It is called "Profitable Beef Production" by a M. Mcg. Cooper and M.B. Willis. I believe I bought it years ago from an ad in the Western Producer. Anyway it is a UK book and they talk fairly extensively about the "Hill breeds". They seem to be particulary high on the Irish Blue-Gray cow, as a mother cow on marginal land. This cow is a Galloway/white shorthorn cross.
They also talk a lot about the Welsh Black and the Luing.
It is a very interesting book. Put out by Farming Press Limited, Wharfedale Road, Ipswich, Suffolk.

[grassfarmer]

The blue-grey cow you mention Cowman is the real blue-grey not the "Irish" blue-grey but if it's an English book I can believe they would make that mistake! Galloway cows bred to the Whitebred (or Cumberland)shorthorn were the backbone of the cow herd on the Scottish/English border for many years. An excellent F1 cross that worked beautifully, was easy care, productive and long lasting. Sadly they are now very rare due mainly to the decline in numbers and size of the Galloway breed from the 1960s on. Don't get me wrong there are some very good Galloway herds there but the breed is at a fraction of it's former numbers.
Luing cows have actually replaced a lot of the big bluegrey herds in the Borders.

[redcountry]

no mention of the Tarentaise breed here, a french mountain cow,
A small cow 1100lbs, tucked up udder a wonderful mother,crossed to a charolis will finish as good a calf as any.
I have noticed a strange trait, most cows will feed any calf that wants a drink, more so if the calf is young.