Hill Breed question?

[cswilson]

Now who is putting words in the other's mouth. I am not bad mouthing Angus cattle any more than you want to win the arguement over your quality statement. I give wilson.

[grassfarmer]

And let's be realistic how many Canadian ranchers buy 30 bulls in a year let alone wanting 30 same breed, half brothers?

[cakadu]

I think the most important point made here was to find a breed that works for you, your land, your situation and use it to your best advantage. Many people like to go the tried and true, while others find appealing traits in the lesser known breeds that they can use to try and gain profit.

There has been a reason that the livestock sectors have had problems moving ahead and it is BREED PRIDE. At the end of the day we are all trying to sell meat that the consumer wants to buy and is willing to pay for. How we get to those standards and what breeding stock we use is another matter. But does it really matter if you are giving your customer what they are asking for?

Once that skin comes off and it's hanging on the rail, can one tell an Angus from a Galloway from a Shorthorn just looking at them on the hook?

Unless and until we can get past this barrier and begin to work together, we will maintain the status quo. I think that people are really beginning to see that there is more out there than the way we have been doing it for the past 50 years.

I'll give you an example using lamb. We raise a breed known as Barbados Black Belly, which are not well received in the commercial sheep industry. That is fine with us because at the end of the day, through our direct marketing, we put more of the money into our pockets. In comparing the loin chop - which is the most saleable piece of the lamb next to the rack - ours are comparable to the commerical breeds, yet our maintenance and feed costs are far lower. The Barbados is a small to medium carcass, but on a comparative basis, the most expensive piece grades out just as good or better than the commercial breeds and that is coming from the folks that do lamb in a big way. There are just so many things that are going for the breed that we will never switch to the woolled breeds. Having said that though, others find their breeds to their liking and we don't have a problem with it at all. It's funny though, how the other breeders don't have too much good to say about the lesser breeds.

What one needs to be concerned with is how what you are doing improves the bottom line - profit before production.

Cheers and Happy Easter!

[cswilson]

Grassfarmer I've had orders for more than that and I know lots that would buy groups of 10-20 if they were available. Purebred breeders of all breeds are guilty to some extent of breeding to the flavour of the year. There is discussion about linebreeding for consistancy-I have a buddy runs all half brothers or better when he is done his next door neighbor uses them and he buys another set. 10-15 bulls at a crack but they are very hard to find.

[cswilson]

Excellant post cakadu.

[cowman]

I just have to agree with Purecountry on the hair thing. I like a cow with a good thick hair coat and some angus and herefords do have good hair? One reason why herefords were so tough was because they have a thicker heavier hide. That is a fact...just ask anyone who butchers cattle! And Angus(at least the old ones) had a covering of fat that pretty well insulated the whole body.
Now I'm not knocking any breed but you go up into that tough country around Kamloops and about all you see is black baldies! I assume they are angus/herfords but they might be something else?
Let's not forget that these old range cows once upon a time lived pretty tough? They lived in the slough pot holes and the chaff piles and that was it! My great granfather cowboyed for the big Burns ranch east of Olds and they spent all winter moving cattle from farmer to farmer to eat up the chaff piles. He said it was common practice for the cows to be turned out in the pothole country to look after themselves for the winter. Now those cows were generally herefords.

[cowman]

My grandfather, on my mom's side, was a die hard Hereford man as well. As late as the late 60's early 70's he was still wintering cows on piles of chaff collected behind the self propelled combine. It never hurt his herd one bit, however, when the only upstart grandson cattleman in the family suggested a bit of Angus influence.
WITHOUT running down any breed, I will only say that numbers do not mean quality. Yes people follow trends, and stories like these about Herefords and Angus will always keep them up in numbers, and give people choice in numbers.

The best I can figure, our freind cswilson must be a US cattleman.Made a trip to Billings last fall and stopped for a beer in a little roadside bar just east of Great Falls Montana. 7 triaxle pots came down from the hills loaded with calves bound for the mid west feedlot belt. We were told this was one family ranch selling most of their steers for the year. I could imagine this ranch looking for 30 some 1/2 brothers.

One last point about the hill breeds to consider. We had a mainly Angus commercial herd when I decided that the next step in my carrer was to enter the purebred fold. If I were to have jumped on the "BUY THE POPULAR" purebred animals, in any large numbered breed, I don't suspect I would still be in the business. I bought my first cows, and crossbred my commercial herd with animals that never cost me an arm and a leg. They still don't cost the young folks that I sell to, an arm and a leg. And I am proud of the fact that I can start new young enthusiastic cattlemen off with their dreams knowing it will not cut into their standard of living.
As for the price of Quality. The same.
Our top end bulls are every bit as good as any other breed (numbers limited cswilson) and command less than our neighbors crossbreds. Tell me that is not a human "marketing" issue.

Happy Easter to you too cakadu. Having lamb for dinner are we?

[cswilson]

Well RP I'm as far away from the U.S. as you can be in Saskatchewan and still run cows 450 miles north of border and there are ranches up here that would like groups of halfbrothers. My connection to the U.S. is up until the border closing I sold all my breeding bulls into Wyoming plus I order bought bulls for U.S. ranchers. To answer the tough task of finding large groups of related bulls aloit of guys are just raising their own. A.I. ing a large group of their better cows to one bull then keeping a set of bull calves.

[cswilson]

I must be getting old lol-when cowman asked about how galloways perform in the feedlot I forgot I'd fed a poen of them once 1/2 Char-1/2 Galloway from Ballantyne's-this was in the days before grids and such but from what I recall they performed pretty well. I've got a friend raising here/gall black baldie cows and using south devon as the terminal cross seems to be working pretty well.