Hutterites

[grassfarmer]

I read occasionally in these threads references to the Hutterites or "men in black" and they are always in a negative tone - why so?
I live near a colony and have found them to be good neighbours, affordable custom operators and god fearing people yet they are not popular. I am impressed by their business skills, scale, multi-species diversity of crops and animals they keep. We hear much talk of adding value to grain by processing it through animals and trying to retain a younger generation on the land - these people do both but get condemned for it.
Is it jealousy, fear or racism that causes this dislike for these folks? One thing about them is they are Canadians and they are sucessfully expanding in agriculture at a time when others are failing - perhaps we could learn something from them?

[skeeter]

Sorry for the political incorrectness there grassfarmer. Didn't mean to slag new canadians or hutterites in that other thread just trying to make a point. As for "men in black" it refers to the movies the young hutterite boys that work for us get a kick out of 'em.

[cowman]

As with any people there are the good the bad and the ugly, so it is with Hutterites. I do believe the basic Hutterite system is starting to break down with money about the only thing holding them together anymore? The young ones are pretty wild and not religious at all!
When I go to a farmers market I try not to buy from the Hutterites...I like to buy from the mom and pop types, but perhaps that is just a personal bias? But then it's my money and I guess it is my right to spend it where I like?
But generally if it weren't for the Hutterites farm land would be a lot cheaper and therefore our assets would be a lot less, so I guess one shoudn't knock them.
Do they have an unfair advantage? Well perhaps. They definitely are well organized and know how to take every advantage of the system, which I am not saying is a bad thing. But lets not forget either that there are a lot of dead Canadian soldier boys lying in Europe who never got their chance to farm? Was that fair?

[amazed]

This may be a stupid question but here goes.

Do the Hutterites benefit from less taxation because of being a religious group when dealing with income tax? Are they able to avoid any or all income tax because of the "religious" structure of their communities.

[rsomer]

For income tax purposes Hutterite colonies qualify as communal organizations. This means income earned by these organizations can be allocated among their adult members without that income ever actually being distributed to the spouse as a regular farm has to do. This is the ulitimate tax break and gives the Hutterites an unfair tax advantage.
See: http://www.parl.gc.ca/36/2/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/080_2000-04-06/han080_1300-e.htm

For a regular farm to achieve income splitting I must write a cheque to my wife and send in source deductions to Revenue Canada or else she must claim she was a self employed contractor. The Hutterite colonies do not have to do this. No cheque is written yet the income gets split amongst every adult member of the colony. You and I cannot do that and that is not fair.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, I am not a pacifist by any means, but am trying to understand this better - under what circumstances does pacifism make you less worthy of farming? My Dad employed an old boy in the early 60's that was badly injured in WW1 and he resented a particular farming family that had been contientious objectors and had expanded their farm operations by buying land while their countrymen served in the trenches. That was 40 years after the war ended - is there a time period after which these things get forgotton? Does it only apply to WW1 and WW2? - we are now nearing 60 years after the end of WW2. At some point in the future will Canadians be deemed unfit to own land because they didn't participate in Iraq? Perhaps only Americans will be able to buy the land then - but wait what about the Americans that dodged the Viet Nam draft?

rsomer, on the tax issue I read the article you provided and am slightly confused by it as I am not too familier with tax systems here yet. The way I read that bill though (is it in place or was it a proposed bill?) was that the changes outlined were being proposed in order to "maintain a roughly equivelant level of taxation" to Hutterites and non-Hutterite farm operations. That read like they had been treated unfairly since the 1970s compared to outsiders and this was being done to redress the balance - is that correct?

[rsomer]

See: http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/esau/litigation/huttlitigationweb.htm

[kato]

We have quite a few Hutterite neighbours. They are the first to help when someone has a disaster like a fire or flood. They are good neighbours, if you have a chance to get to know them.

The colonies around here aren't that interested in expanding land holdings any more, it seems. They are getting into manufacturing and such to diversify. You can get some pretty good kitchen cupboards from them!

I do think the future is going to be a challenge for them though. It's getting harder and harder to keep the influences of modern society out.

[circlex]

cowman you are exactly right. the good bad and ugly.I border three different colonies in southerh alberta. Two colonies are the nicest and fairest people you may ever meet, but the third one I've had too lock them out of my land cause they are always stealing thiongs off my equipment. I even had the RCMP down too this colony and I knew they had my parts but couldn't prove it. Th e next day I found it in my stubble field half mile away from where it was taken. The only reason I found it was cause I seen the colonies boys dowwn there earlier but was too far away to see which one had the partsd in their possession I use too let them travel through my land to go to town cause it was about three miles shorter but that no longer happens' I had to chain it up' so things have been alot better since that happened. No more missing parts, antennas fire extinguishers, dip sticks etc. It was getting a little expensive too replace.

[cowman]

Grassfarmer: No nothing has much changed. You can't treat one citizen a certain way and another a different way. A lot of the Mennonites were COs but they still had to serve in the army...just not sent overseas. Not so the Hutterites.
How was it right that my twenty year old uncle got killed in Holland and my Dad came back a lifelong cripple while these people stayed home and made lots of war dollars? And lets not forget Hitler would have marched them off to the gas chamber real quick if he got the chance? I believe he thought fairly highly of the English...so I guess my Dad and uncle wouldn't have been at risk?
If there was a major war today would anything have changed? Your children and mine would be going but the Hutterites would still be exempt? In a true and fair democracy everyone needs to be treated the same? Is that not fair?