R - Calf

[cswilson]

Well this obviously is going nowhere when you can have a rational discussion without bringing in how much better a man you are and religion into it i'll reply to your post until then try and refrain from the personal slurs.

[cswilson]

Didn't have time to respond to this garbage this morning and I'm glad I collected my thoughts first or I may have gotten into the shouting match too.

I would like to respond to both cases of animal cruely that cowman has attributed to holistic farm management.

#1 - the cows with shit and tag all over from sleeping in the snow. If you think cows are that stupid -----. Yes we domesticated the beasts and are therefore responsible for them. But a shit tagged cow is one that has been neglected in an intensive environment, not an extensive more natural way. Might I suggest an operator with little fenced property who had some straw available and then quit. Cows will not lie in their own shit unless they are forced to do so, or where offered a bed and then had it taken away due to neglect.

As far as the dead cow with the dead calf hanging out of her I would have to agree with grassfarmer concerning the manager with more COW TIME. I would also like to suggest that this farmer was trying to squeeze the last penny out of this cow by leaving common sense and natural ways behind and using a bull that forced her beyond her limit to line his pocket and give him bragging rights in the auction barn in the fall. This scenerio is more often played out in the opposite ranching philosophy to holistic management.

We need you on this site cowman, but somehow you need to admit that your statements about "the new cattle business" are wrong. This new cattle business is more than likely closer to the way your long line of people in cattle managed than you want to admit.