R - Calf

[blackjack]

Sure seems to me that R - Calf supports their grassroot producers a heck of lot more than our own ABP. R -Calf say they will sue the USDA if live animals from Canada are allowed back into the U.S.A.

[rsomer]

R-Calf has a membership of 9000, that would be the equivalent of 900 in Canada. They are a small splinter group of malcontents. Their main platform is encouraging policies that foster one way. R-Calf is certainly not representative of the U.S. beef industry. In fact R-Calf paints the American cattleman as a rather stupid ignorant SOB who is unaware of the North American beef industry, the world around them and how trade works.

[rsomer]

That should have read "Their main platform is encouraging policies that foster one way trade."

[rodb]

R CALF is not the only US org. that believes in what they call fair trade, or we produce it and you buy it.

The Americans are finding out that they are not the best at everything and hate to see someone do better than they are. They hate to compete.

[blackjack]

I agree with you guys about R-calf but I wonder if ABP could tell our american beef allies the propaganda R-calf spread . I just think the longer the our borders are closed the more it will hurt cowcalf operations in both countries. In the long haul the Americans will need their beef export market open . It does not help when R-calf and the northern US Senators are calling canadian beef diseased !

[cowman]

I suspect if we had a Canadian R-CALF I would be all for joining. I mean consider they have just come through a year of record prices...why would they want it to change?
Maybe they are really wrong(from our perspective) but what is so wrong with wanting to make a decent return on your calves?
I agree they don't see the big picture, and in reality why should they? All they want is a good profit...just like any other business! They see a wealthy country that is well able to afford to pay for what they are producing, so why let in foreign meat or cattle?
Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong but I really can't fault them for looking after their own interests? If they don't do it who will?

[rsomer]

And might is right I guess. And I guess if Alberta beef producers had the political clout they would lobby to turn off the oil and gas taps to the Americans until they accept our beef. But that is not likely to happen although fair would be fair.
These are the same Montana cattlemen who were the ones to lobby to see their anaplasmosis and bluetongue infected cattle imported into Canada. So Canada lets them in. What happens? R-Calf turns around and lobbies to keep out Canadian cattle. Now there is win win. They win both ways and we loose both ways.
The U.S. cattle industry is made up of more than 1 million small businesses – farms or ranches – operating in all 50 states. R-Calf represents less than 1% of that industry, they should not be given more credibility than they deserve at same time as the U.S. beef industry should not be painted as all being R-Calf supporters. I see the problem with these extremist lobby groups is they pretend to speak for an industry when they only speak for their own small narrow interests. It would seem that 99% of the American cattle producers do not support R-Calf.

[cowman]

Now rsomer, I'm not saying they are right. But you have to admire their ability to promote their agenda? Sure it might not be fair, but they are "taking care of businesss"?
Let's face it, if you or I could see a way to lobby our government, so that it put X amount of dollars into our pockets, wouldn't we take it?
Maybe you are a more noble type than me...but if I saw that buck I'd go for it! And I suspect so would about 99% of Canadian producers?
You know that I think the blue tongue thing was a blatant sell out by our government? But hopefully the fix was in, otherwise we gave up a lot just to kiss butt? Hopefully our leaders have done the right thing?

[rsomer]

R-Calf has been successful at promoting their agenda. At least in part because their agenda of protectionism and restrictive trade is the same as the government in power. Also, in the U.S., lobby groups are more common and more successful because of the different U.S. political system.

I have met some of these more extremist U.S. cattle producers and they are really way out there in their views. They can be extremely ignorant. I am not convinced that putting bucks in their pockets is the goal for these people. It sometimes seems that they are motivated by a pro American, anti everyone else attitude. For instance I am not convinced that if COOL were implemented that it would put more bucks in the pockets of American producers yet that almost doesn’t seem to matter. There is more to it than that. A fear of not being able to compete fairly, perhaps a belief that they do not need to compete fairly.
Like Canadian beef producers, these people are not strictly motivated by dollars. But would Canadians do the same if we got the chance? I think not, we really are different. I think Canadians in general like to be fair rather than win. And cowman, based on your comments in the various threads I tend to think you would tend to be fair too rather than see who could be hurt they are down which is a underpinning motivation for R-Calf. R-Calf’s lobby efforts display a moral rot and deep seated fear that I don’t see amongst Canadian beef producers.

[kato]

If a native American BSE case pops up, this will all blow up in R-Calf's face. Big time.

I was quite surprised first time I visited an American discussion board, and saw posts from people accusing each other of belonging to R-Calf, like it wasn't a good thing.

I had been under the impression that they represented a lot more producer's views than they really do. It was comforting to know that there are rational sensible people down there, and they don't all want what R-Calf wants.

[amazed]

R-calf has stated they will launch a lawsuit against the USDA if the US border opens to Canadian live cattle.

In the next breath R-calf is supporting Creekstone who wants to BSE test cattle they slaughter for Japan. Creekstone also wants the border open to live Canadian cattle.

Doesn't sound like R-calf is taking care of business, but is instead busy chasing their tail.

[rsomer]

This clip from Animalnet has the NCBA reaction to R-Calf. The clip also includes some hints on how the NCBA sees the border opening to Canadian live cattle.

NCBA executive committee opposes litigation that threatens opening of international markets: R-calf tactic ignores science, overall industry goals
April 19, 2004
National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
http://www.beef.org/dsp/dsp_content.cfm?locationId=45&contentTypeId=2&cont entId=2604
Efforts to build a global market for U.S. beef based on science would be harmed by frivolous litigation against the U.S. Department of Agriculture to close the U.S. border to Canadian beef and cattle, according to the officers and executive committee of the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association (NCBA). R-Calf/United Stockgrowers of America has threatened to sue the USDA to keep the border closed until Canada is recognized internationally as “BSE-Free.”
Passed in an NCBA Executive Committee teleconference last Friday was the following statement: “The NCBA Executive Committee, comprised of cattlemen from across the country, opposes this type of lawsuit that restricts the opportunity to reopen international markets that benefit U.S. cattle producers.”
According to NCBA President Jan Lyons, a cattle and beef producer from Manhattan, Kan., efforts to recapture the $13-15 per hundredweight lost to beef exports following the Dec. 23 incident in Washington state would suffer as a result of R-Calf’s action.
“We really can’t expect our export partners to base their decisions on science if we’re not willing to do the same thing with those who export products to us,” Lyons says. “When it comes to Canada, we expect that border to be opened in such a way that it would not harm our domestic market, that Canadian heifers be permanently identified and not allowed to enter the U.S. breeding herd through feedlots, and that Canada abide by equivalency principles on cattle and beef so that we have unrestricted movement of cattle and beef to Canada.
“At the same time, we want to assure that Japan and other importing countries abide by internationally accepted science in their trade with the United States. We firmly believe the science provides assurances to all beef consumers, both here and abroad, that U.S. beef is safe. We simply cannot address international trade one country at a time.”
Lyons says the best way to recapture losses due to trade sanctions against the U.S. is to show the world how to conduct trade based on science, not to work overtime to create new trade sanctions against countries.
“This lawsuit threat is consistent with other R-Calf isolationist actions that would ultimately prove detrimental to cattlemen,” according to Lyons. “It appears to be a membership-generating effort that ignores the value of U.S. beef exports to cattlemen. It also ignores science that shows the border can be reopened safely, and done without harm to U.S. cattlemen if done properly.
“If we applied the R-Calf criteria of ‘prohibiting imports of live cattle or beef from countries with BSE in their herds,’ then other countries, like Japan, would apply the same standard to us – regardless of the animal’s origin,” Lyons says.

[cowman]

I wonder how much less money the American rancher is getting for his feeder calf since Japan shut the door over BSE? The fact is someone definitely makes money on beef shipped to Japan...but is it the American cow/calf producer?
And I also wonder how much more money the American cow/calf producer got for his feeder calf when the border closed to Canada last May? And how much more money he got for his cull cow?
These people would be complete idiots if they welcomed an open border! What would happen?...Well right off the bat their cow price would drop like a rock? And I assume so would their feeder cattle? For what? The promise that they are going to share in the lucrative Japanese market? I don't think so and I don't think they are that dumb to ever believe that. The fact is they won't get one nickel more for their calf, whether a Japanese eats it or an American!
Somehow R-calf is portrayed as this bunch of radicals, when in reality they are just a bunch of old boys trying to protect their life? I guess they need to be sent away for "re-education" because they haven't bought into the idea of globalism? Somehow we're all supposed to believe that "globalism" is a good thing and we will all be better off. In fact what will globalism mean for you and me? It will mean we get to live by the lowest common denominator....which could be tricky! Living in a mud hut at 40 below could be fairly raw?

[cswilson]

R-Calf is nothing but a bunch of ill informed protectionists-case in point-Leo McDonell while fervently espousing antiCanadian views manages to swallow his pride and cash my cheque for a bull I purchased in Midland. Pat Goggins another good old robber baron has no trouble taking Canadian royalty cheques on semen he sells up here. They are so full of crap they stink. They have not made the average producer one red cent with all the posturing. The majority of my ranch friends in Wyoming and Montana wish they'd just shut up.

[Willowcreek]

One thing you have to say though about R-CALF- they are developing a grassroots backing amongst cattlemen. 629 new members in the months of Jan. and Feb. alone.

And the Creekstone testing issue with the USDA and NCBA's support of the USDA is not playing well with many old NCBA members. Look for it to be a huge recruitment bonus for R-CALF.