R - Calf

[grassfarmer]

What garbage Cowman! The things you describe seeing sound like someone keeping cattle poorly in a conventional system. Apart from about 6 leaner old cows I have wintered my cows entirely away from the corrals with no bedding this winter and they are immaculate. Their hair coats have remained spotless at all times sleeping in the snow - all my neighbours that bed cows are the ones with the matted dirty coats. I provided windbreak or bush shelter on the very few days we had severe weather this winter but otherwise they were out manuring the land as nature intended. I would suggest that most people adopting a holistic or extended grazing regime spend far more time with their cows and will actually observe their body condition better than a conventional farmer - the type of guy who spends his time in a tractor and checks his cows once a week.
I'm have over 60 calves having started the mature cows on 8th April and what a joy it has been. Had two assisted calvings (one twisted uterous and one with twins)and two calves to suckle due to poor udder shapes, apart from that every calf has been up, suckled and zero treatment needed. Cows are out on the clean, but limited banked grass I kept over from last year plus getting hay to eat - would I go back to winter calving, with deep snow and -40C weather, with cows in corrals using a pile of expensive bedding to be less comfortable? I don't think so.

[cswilson]

That was uncalled for Cowman if you can't be rational maybe is time to exit-there is a big difference between starving and being innovative. Everybody becomes more conservative as they get older-I'm not as aggressive as I was at 20 now that I'm 40. I think it's delusional to expect the taxpayers to support our industry no matter how high our costs rise. Oh by the way do I phone the S.P.C.A. next time I see a calf with frozen ears-a cow getting a big calf cut out-a frozen tit. There are pitfalls and tradeoffs to every management system.

[cswilson]

Cowman-Nov. 1995 Cattleman cover if you want to see some of those terrible starved out cows us holistic new age cowkillers raise.

[cowman]

Whoa boys! Are you ever out and about!
Now I am sure you are a bunch of puritans but don't be shooting me for what I see! I'm not the bastard not bedding his cows!
The fact is there are people who do these kind of things...and yea I've seen them!
cwilson:Somehow you've got this idea I'm some old SOB...Like... I've got a couple of years to go till I hit 50! So maybe I'm not a complete dinosaur? And maybe I'm one hell of a lot better man than you'll ever hope to be? But I will tell you I was born on a cows tit and my people go back in cow one hell of a long way so don't try to tell me where the world starts or ends!!!!
Will I phone the SPCA when I see this crap happening? No I won't! I figure that is between you and your maker and some day you will answer for how you treated your fellow creatures!

[cswilson]

Well this obviously is going nowhere when you can have a rational discussion without bringing in how much better a man you are and religion into it i'll reply to your post until then try and refrain from the personal slurs.

[cswilson]

Didn't have time to respond to this garbage this morning and I'm glad I collected my thoughts first or I may have gotten into the shouting match too.

I would like to respond to both cases of animal cruely that cowman has attributed to holistic farm management.

#1 - the cows with shit and tag all over from sleeping in the snow. If you think cows are that stupid -----. Yes we domesticated the beasts and are therefore responsible for them. But a shit tagged cow is one that has been neglected in an intensive environment, not an extensive more natural way. Might I suggest an operator with little fenced property who had some straw available and then quit. Cows will not lie in their own shit unless they are forced to do so, or where offered a bed and then had it taken away due to neglect.

As far as the dead cow with the dead calf hanging out of her I would have to agree with grassfarmer concerning the manager with more COW TIME. I would also like to suggest that this farmer was trying to squeeze the last penny out of this cow by leaving common sense and natural ways behind and using a bull that forced her beyond her limit to line his pocket and give him bragging rights in the auction barn in the fall. This scenerio is more often played out in the opposite ranching philosophy to holistic management.

We need you on this site cowman, but somehow you need to admit that your statements about "the new cattle business" are wrong. This new cattle business is more than likely closer to the way your long line of people in cattle managed than you want to admit.