Industry exposure

[nerves]

Valuechain I have two very good friends that have been doing this all their lives one sets up big plants and shows them how to be efficient. The other has worked the floor of these federal plants for sixteen years, and to this day he will not eat weiners. I have heard some stories from these two that would make you shake your head. I also know that a small plant can be shut down in a instant untill the problem is solved try that at a big plant. As far as direct marketing goes we had a tv crew within an hour of set up. The local newspaper the next day, the phone won"t stop ringing from people asking Questions. The local grocery store flyers came out today the price of beef in the stores dropped a dollar fifty per pound on steaks and roasts, in the city we are selling. I think they are worried if this catches on they are in trouble. We hear nothing but good things and the urban population is behind us we need to show them what quality meat is and I feel there is only one direction to go.

[blackjack]

nerves... don't get me wrong I wish you all the success in your marketing venture! I think you would agree that your local small packer would expand only after he/she found a market for their product . How much processed meat could there be sold locally ? I could be wrong but where is the labor source going to come from? What is the extra freezer space going to cost? As you know there is learning curves in all businesses so I'll watch from the sidelines for a while!

[ValueChainFX]

Cakadu, Your little red faced icon indicates you're irritation. As someone that has sat on government developed industry-representing bodies, I guess I would be a little red faced at the performance of some of these groups as well in the past few months. This is not intended to be nasty or insulting to you or anyone else that has taken time from their families to try to do what they can for the industry. It is intended to point out, just how out of touch some of these groups are with the plight of agriculture in Canada and around the world. Developing leadership is not a function of conforming to the bureaucracy that holds information and deals what is called “Agriculture money” to people that don’t allow the government strategy of “Trickle down to the primary producer” (the trickle down is a quote from a senior bureaucrat) in fact, I would liken some of these groups as receivers of what the program “Beef Inc.” referred to as soft money that supports the bureaucrats and the groups that act as a buffer between the industry and their office. Leadership is a function of both listening and providing action steps to achieve goals and strategies that assist those you represent!

Knowing a little about some of the peoples back grounds both from their profiles here in agri-ville and from their comments throughout the years on agri-ville I would suggest they have the experience and background to see beyond their personnel thought process and review alternatives to what is an obvious industry challenge that will require an industry solution. The industry does not belong to the government, nor the groups that have been suggesting they represent the grass roots “Primary Producers”. In saying this however, mediation/negotiation, understanding and building strategic alliances including collaboration with all sectors is essential to ensure these groups return to their mandates and become “Real Partners” in building solutions. Networking, team building and the establishment of fair and equitable value throughout the supply chain will only come from those that are open to the needs of the industry as a whole and not those that feel they may need to protect systems and functions within those systems that are less than effective. Rural development, environmental stewardship and sustainable agriculture all go hand in hand with this development, many of the issues in these areas have been a direct result of centralization of rural infrastructures into the urban areas. People from around the world have formed their own networks outside the influences of the status quo thinkers to formulate strategies and plans to address the challenges faced today in Canada and around the world.

The industry both farming and the agri-business (from the processor to the retail) are full of negative stories as to the safety issues, the personality challenges, market distortions, and peter robbing paul! The fact is simple, the markets are out their, again from “Beef inc.” program, the world price is the lowest possible price in the market. If this is what you want and are happy with than good for you, keep doing what you are doing! There are also markets that are virtually untapped, or what you may call niche markets and even what is now a commodity market that is open to working in a value chain system. Unlike many industry proposals a strategy that involves reengineering an industry is developed with a network of many individuals working with groups, carefully developing a strategy that builds equity for all participants.

If anyone believes this is some kind of personal attack on them or anything they believe in, my suggestion is ignore the above comments and be happy you are successful in what you are doing. It is not my intention to make anyone in the industry angry, on the other hand if the hair on the back of your head is prickly maybe you should investigate some of the discussed issues closer and keep the comments coming and enforce issues we all need to address.

[cakadu]

Look again at the icon value-chain. It is not the mad icon you believe it to be but rather the one that implies amazement that the comments could be made in the first place.

The time for rhetoric, motherhood and apple pie statements is over. Many of the questions I am asking (and others are asking as well) should be answered so that people can make sound business decisions and know that they are getting the information that they need in order to make those decisions. Having something tied up in the planning stages for several (or more) years is not necessarily moving toward action. Yes, I do know how long it can take to put a value-chain into place. Yes, I have sat on government, non-government and volunteer committees to try and get things moved ahead - some of them rural development committees because I am very concerned about what is happening in the rural areas.

A blanket statement about all provincial plants being in sad shape needs to be backed up with some sort of qualifier for making that statement. Show me what some of these shortcomings are and let me decide for myself how the provincial plants are failing. To come to the table and say that something is bad without also bringing forward suggestions for improvement or at the very least reasons for making those statements is not being productive nor positive.

When people dodge the questions or say that the people asking them are just negative, don't understand etc., I wonder about what it is I'm not being told and what is preventing them from giving logical answers. People need to provide answers to the questions and just maybe they will find more support than they ever knew they could have. My personal philosophy is that I don't want to make assumptions, so give me information.

I believe that there is room in this business of agriculture for all manner and sizes of operations. If you can make a go of it with what you are doing then I am glad that you've found a way to make it work. Since I became involved in agriculture I have pushed, advocated,lobbied and worked toward helping the producer find ways to get more in their pockets for the products that they work so hard to produce and I will continue to do so. There are government policies - written and unwritten - that I don't agree with. When the growth strategy called for 20% more production by 2010, some of us have been there asking where this additional production was going to go. Post border shutdown, it is a good thing we weren't there yet. With the biggest cattle numbers in history right now, we are going to be faced with enough problems as it is. By the same token, there are some programs and policies that I can understand.

The questions asked are intended to give me a better understanding and I hope others get a better understanding as well. I'm glad that there are folks out there to help me with another viewpoint because there are so many ways to look at something. It also gives the opportunity to walk in someone else's rubber boots and know where they are coming from.

[nerves]

caduka excellnt post these are tough times and through shared information maybe we can find answers to help us find our way. Our backs are to the wall how much longer does one sit on the sideline? Why should we put our trust in a system that is distined to keep falling apart?

[ValueChainFX]

Please tell me you watched W Five on what is happening in our meat industry??? Some producers in Alberta and across Canada are working on what they see as a long term fix, as it clears the legal and regulatory bodies the steps are being taken.

[nerves]

sorry missed it the flames are playing you know. Fill us in a bit please on what they are planning.

[cowman]

Well I saw the W5 program and it wasn't pretty but it was fairly realistic about what goes on? Value chain knows what happens in a lot of these plants. Linda, I'm not real sure if I know the plant you use but I suspect I do. I'm glad you are so satisfied with them. Maybe you should ask them why they had a load of meat rejected two months ago by SAIT? Or how the fungus infestation is doing in the cooler coils? Or how their cockroach problem is being handled?
Visit your local auction mart and ask them where they send all the downers and cancer eyes that are too disgusting to run through the ring?
The packing plant is only as good as the owner and the inspectors. Generally both try to do the right thing.

[nerves]

cowman we are talking present regulation not two years ago. Try to get in any of that type of animal that is down or has cancer you may get it there but it will also be rejected.(by that I mean killed and inspected). The inspectors head is on the chopping now as is the plant. As far as mildew all of the doors frams of any plants freezer entrances have to be caulked and sealed this part of the building inspection to keep moisture out it is watched for now days. Water is also often test because you are washing out the carcass tools and floors, hooks and tools must also be stainles steel. Now saying that people are people maybe inspectors can be bought who knows but these people are held accountable and sooner or later they will get caught.

[cakadu]

Cowman, I'm sure there are problems at any plant - regardless of whether it is federally or provincially inspected. I may not know all of what happens at a meat packing plant because I've never worked at one and don't ever plan to. Being a federal plant does not guarantee you that there will be no problems any more than being a provincial plant guarantees that you will have problems.

One thing that I do know for sure is that the major recalls in recent years have come from federally inspected plants with high volume. To me those present far more of a problem because the meat goes to many places, it may not be easily recalled and the potential to do harm is far greater. One example I can give you is hamburger patties that were made in April, sold in a major grocery chain in June and the recall didn't happen until July. Now, in the middle of prime barbeque season what are the chances of those patties still being around?

There can be problems anywhere at any time. The turnover at some of these federal plants runs in the neighborhood of 60% per year. As a matter of fact, in working on some food processing/food safety initiatives and the human resources required for processing (not just in meat plants but in a number of major processing plants), one of the HR people from a big meat packer said if they could keep it at 60% they'd be happy. Now, you can't tell me with that kind of turnover that the potential for things to happen isn't significant because you've got new people all the time who need to learn procedures, the importance offood safety and hygiene, understand HACCP, together with all of the other concerns regarding buildings etc.

In terms of the processor owned plants, I have asked some very basic business-oriented questions that I am patiently waiting for someone to answer and I hope someone can answer them for me. As I have said, over the last 10 to 12 years, I have seen a number of plans, research documents and proposals with respect to owning or establishing one's own plants. In order to part with any of my hard-earned dollars, I would need to have these questions answered and I would also encourage others to find answers to what they need as well.

As with many things, gone are the days when people tell you they have a great idea - we'll build it and they will come. From where I stand, you've got to be able to provide people with the answers to the questions they are asking and not dismiss them as being negative, unable to let go of the past, not thinking outside of the box because they probably could if given the proper information. If people are unwilling to provide answers - for whatever reason - then that is when doubt, assumption and an unwillingness to participate arise.

I wonder how much of this will all be a moot point now anyway, with the border opening up a little more as of tomorrow?

[blackjack]

For anyone that missed the W-five show you can read in on the ctv.ca website.

[nerves]

I got to see part of it this morning maybe that is how road kill got into the system down east to. Any plants that we work with here in Alberta I walk through the whole operation we talk to the inspectors, owners and the people working the plant we get to know them on a fist name basis I want to see what goes on before we send our animals to slaughter. I think you should always look things over in the end you want to see Quality. That to me is another advantage to a small plant maybe it is time to more involved with our food system. Find a good operator and back them through the good times and bad times and they will always be there.

[nerves]

another little bit to add there is always extremes we had a bull last fall that had a hernia I told our processor about it and he said the only way he would accept it was if I had paper saying it had been inspected and signed by our local vet before it stepped off the trailer. I knew right then and there that was the processor for us.

[magpie]

Gentlemen has everyone forgot the thread on Sunday Peter Warren talk radio Feb. 19 where he talked about this book that this doctor was writing about how this book was going to go worldwide? If I remember correctly this was going to have major implications on the processing industry, as he was saying that the prion that causes BSE occurs naturally and he could prove it by studying some cannibal tribe. Now the way I see this unfolding, if this scientist has been able to discover the connection to BSE and humans we will have to test. I think the book comes out in may.

[magpie]

Sorry wrong place I will move it