The Creekstone deal?

[whiteface]

The key is in the theories not the facts. There are no cold hard facts. Our CFIA and such have all jumped on the transmisible theory rather than a chemical imbalance assumption. This has been followed by the species leap which is also unproven. Hand this BS to the media and the politicians, and what have you got.

I was just watching W Five and they where showing some graphic photos of inspected and uninspected bad meat. Too bad they don't have the gonads to add that our society has made food such a cheap part of our daily spending that it has driven these desperate people to these levels. Also interesting how the Americans have disallowed downers from the food chain while Canada has not. I have been in the cattle business (BEEF) all of my life (almost 30 years) and have yet to attempt to sell a downer animal. Would it really cost the industry that much if we stopped downers from entering the food chain, or does the milk marketing board have something to do with this decision?

Once again I agree with whiteface and say, test cattle for BSE if it helps to sell them. Decisions are being made with far less common sense than this, and it will be a cold day in hell before we change the crap that the CFIA is preaching about BSE.

[cowman]

I agree 100% with the test. Definitely as a marketing tool and partly for food safety. Lets find out just what is out there? If everything was tested, there is no health issue as the positives would be removed from the food chain. How many $ does it cost us to remove the SRMs? I would imagine a whole lot more than an $18 test? Japan does not remove the SRMs...just does the test.
The show on W5 was sort of disgusting. Anyone who has ever worked in the packing industry knows it isn't something that is very pretty, and if people ever had a clue they might never eat meat again. The show basically slammed the Ontario meat industry but it isn't much better here. Value chain knows this when he talks about the provincial plants(which can be really bad), but he also knows the federal inspected plants aren't exactly perfect either? You hear things through the g****vine all the time...especially about a certain packer in southern Alberta? How often the meat inspection can be "favorable" and the vet gets a "bonus"?
I've personally seen meat that was "condemned" become suddenly "acceptable" after a closed door meeting with the vet? As I said if you ever worked in one of these plants you'd know what a dirty crooked business it is.

[blackjack]

Another reason we need to test is if a North American human does come down with CvJD our industry will be toast! If the science theory is right all the cattle born prior to 1997 should be pretty much gone through the system in the next five to seven years. The positive BSE results after this time, in theory should be eliminated. Why not for a change be proactive instead of reactive!

[magpie]

Gentlemen has everyone forgot the thread on Sunday Peter Warren talk radio Feb. 19 where he talked about this book that this doctor was writing about how this book was going to go worldwide? If I remember correctly this was going to have major implications on the processing industry, as he was saying that the prion that causes BSE occurs naturally and he could prove it by studying some cannibal tribe. Now the way I see this unfolding, if this scientist has been able to discover the connection to BSE and humans we will have to test. I think the book comes out in may.

[grassfarmer]

I don't doubt there is a "natural source" of BSE and someone will identify it someday. I assume the tribe of cannibals mentioned were the ones in Papua, New Guinea. Mark Purdey has visited there and was interested to find that although cannibilism took place among many of the island tribes only one tribe had a high incidence of CJD (That is the original human CJD not the "varient" CJD that has been spuriously linked to BSE. He was interested to find that they used metallic food bowls made out of the fuselage of downed aircraft from WW2. He found these metals plane parts contained high levels of the specific elements he suspects of causing BSE in cattle.

[nerves]

grassfarmer very interesting I heard a dentist talking on the radio a while back about magnesium poisoning and how people working in a mine in Austalia developed symptoms simular to mad cow. They had another name for it I don"t remember, but he seemed to think it could very well be realated. He also mention what you had just stated.

[rsomer]

Skeeter: Your comments are right on. Testing does not make beef any safer.

The issue is not food safety because our beef is safe. How do we know it is safe? Because the same people that pointed out the possible, underline possible, link between BSE and CJD also tell us that North American is taking the necessary steps to ensure a safe beef supply . Those people are the scientists. Producers, consumers, and governments cannot on the one hand choose to believe that there is a potential link between BSE and CJD and then disregard advice from the same people when they say North American beef is safe. Our beef is safe, period.

Companies like Creekstone are only interested in their bottom line. Countries like Japan are equally only interested in their political agenda. The United States takes second place to no one when it comes to protecting their own interests. And the beef producer is at the bottom of all this mess.

Yes our beef industry is beat up pretty bad and like a whipped puppy is cowering and willing to do anything the bullies tell us. But now, more than ever, is the time we need to stick to our guns. And in this fight the science is our "guns". If we throw down our guns, put our hands in the air and say don’t shoot we will test our beef don’t be surprised if the Japanese shoot us anyway because the issue never was food safety.

As an industry, beef producers have to stick with the science or we will be at the mercy of any government, any group, or even company like Creekstone that sees their interests advanced by raising unfounded allegations about our beef product.

[cakadu]

rsomer I can certainly understand and agree with your points and wonder when it will actually stop.

Domestically, I don't see consumers rushing out en masse to demand that the beef be tested. In fact, from what I see just the opposite is true. They are supporting their beef industry by buying more. What the reasons are for the increase in consumption are likely quite varied - Dr. Atkins be praised for some of it I suppose.

We have all kinds of tests these days that tell us our predisposition to certain cancers, hodgkins etc.. I asked the dr. about it and he said one should get tested only if they are prepared to deal with the results. He told me that people have to ask themselves how it will affect the quality of their lives knowing that they carry these genes. It doesn't necessarily mean that you will get it, just that you are predisposed.

The Japanese test because they covered it up and consumer confidence was completely eroded - they had no choice but to do it.

I am not saying that we should be for or against testing - just that we need to decide how we are going to deal with the results. Will it be something that is welcomed by consumers and purchasers of our products or will it do harm in the sense that the more we find (potentially) the more at risk people feel? It makes sense to test only if we know specifically what to look for and once we do test, we are prepared to deal with the results.

[rsomer]

I just received this clip from Animalnet. U.S. and Canada have similar positions vis a vis testing and the NCBA comments pasted below are equally relevant for Canada and Canadian beef producers.

NCBA statement: Trade negotiations and private testing issues
April 19, 2004
National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
Jan Lyons, Kansas Cattle Producer and NCBA President
http://www.beef.org/dsp/dsp_content.cfm?locationId=45&contentTypeId=2&cont entId=2603
“On behalf of America’s beef producers, we believe it is critically important the U.S. government retain oversight for animal health and food safety, as well as international trade negotiations as we try to regain access to export markets that closed to U.S. beef after the December 23 discovery of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE). The recent debate over private testing for BSE as a marketing tool continues to disrupt government-to-government discussions on restoring trade for U.S. beef, impose economic stress on our cattlemen and undermine consumer confidence in a safe product.
“We cannot compromise the science that serves as the basis for food safety and global trade of safe food. A departure from science-based decision making would create a precedent for future regulations and trade demands that would negatively impact U.S. cattlemen without protecting public or animal health.
“Testing of all cattle is not scientifically justified. The world’s leading experts in animal health and risk analysis, including the World Organization for Animal Health and the USDA’s International Review Team, have agreed that testing all cattle does not provide additional protection for consumers. The International Review Team report commissioned by USDA states, ‘the subcommittee considers testing of all cattle slaughtered for human consumption to be unjustified in terms of protecting human and animal health.’ The multiple firewalls erected over the past 15 years to protect our food supply from this disease – including the feed ban, surveillance system and removal of specified risk material from the food supply – ensures we continue to produce safe beef for consumers here and abroad.
“Internationally recognized scientific standards must be the guidepost for food safety and trade decisions. Allowing private companies to use testing as a “marketing” tool, before the government first establishes the framework for trade based upon science, will place undue costs on cattlemen without producing additional protections for consumers and our animal herds. Resources spent on this unwarranted effort will take resources away from efforts that do improve the safety of our food supply and the health of our cattle.
“Testing is not a simple marketing decision that will only impact those who decide to surrender to this unjustified request in order to gain access to export markets. Japan did not ban beef just from one company. It banned all beef from the United States. If one market requires 100 percent testing, all cattle in the U.S. would have to follow this standard because products from the majority of cattle harvested in the United States are exported. This unwarranted testing would become the standard for doing business, and the cost will be born by U.S. cattle producers. This is a decision that affects the entire industry. Therefore, it is critical the U.S. government establish the parameters by which U.S. beef can be exported.
“Furthermore, the U.S. beef industry is the largest sector of agriculture and one of the largest sectors of the U.S. economy. The use of sensitive BSE testing methods without adequate security and oversight raises the real risk that rumors of potential false-positives would negatively impact the nation’s economy and unnecessarily alarm consumers, risking thousands of jobs and billions of dollars. Cattlemen don’t need to relive December 23 due to an unchecked rumor.
“America’s beef producers are committed to producing the safest beef in the world. The beef we produce is not only served in homes around the world, it’s served in our own homes to our own families. That’s why we strongly support a targeted BSE testing program that tests older animals and those in high-risk categories that are susceptible to this disease. We simply want science to establish the standard for international trade.”

[cowman]

rsomer: I find it amazing that you continue to support the American gospel on "science" when in fact they disregard that very science. I think you might agree they don't practice what they preach? Because if they did the border would have been open to Canadian cattle a long time ago?
I continue to be amazed by American two faced approach to just about everything in the world. Why is there one set of rules for America and another set for everyone else? Why can America impose its will on just about everything while they blatantly break all the rules?
A clear example would be nuclear weapons. Why is it that America can tell other countries they can't have nuclear weapons and yet America can? Lets not forget the only country in the world that has ever used nuclear weapons on people was America!