The Creekstone deal?

[cowman]

The thing that amazed me most about this deal is why would any government want to stop a company from opening up trade again? Especially when the price to do so is so minimal? I mean $18??? What happened to all this garbage we heard about tests costing so much?
Now the USDA goes off into some fantasy that the test is not as good as their $300 test...who cares? The Japanese say the $18 test is good enough for them, so what is the problem here?
If a packer in Canada decided they would test everything, using the $18 test, would our federal government allow it? Would the CCA/ABP be all for it?
If that is all it takes($18 test) what in the world is the problem? Let's see...I spend $18 to test my cow...now she is worth $750 instead of $200. Maybe they need to send some of these politicians/government workers back to school to take some basic arithmetic?

[william38]

We keep being told that "decisions will be based on science" by both our governments, and in fact all trading partners. We are said to be getting carried away or paranoid if we suggest otherwise.

If this isn't the ultimate political move WHAT IS?

Test the damn cows!!!

[rsomer]

I am of the opinion that Creekstone should not be allowed to independently test for BSE.

The USDA has said publically that "The use of the test as proposed by Creekstone would have implied a consumer safety aspect that is not scientifically warranted." I agree.

The science is clear, the risk of BSE in animals under 30 months of age is virtually nill. If Japan was saying they would accept beef under 30 months of age with no test they might have some credibility. Instead it is clear this is about protectionism and supporting Japans domestic beef industry, not about food safety.

Creekstone is attempting to opportunistically take advantage of the BSE crisis for its own corporate gain with no regard for the remainder of the industry and over 1 million beef producers. All North American beef is safe, that is a fact that seems to be forgotten far too easily even by producers. Surveillance testing is in place that proves the incidence in North America of BSE is minimal in animals over 30 months, at or near the levels that would be expected to occur spontaneously, and non existent in animals under 30 months. North America is not Europe or for that matter Japan, our incidence of BSE is dramatically lower. By pandering to Japan, Creekstone is casting a shadow over the quality of all North American beef.

Lets not forget that Japan never implemented a ban on feeding ruminant protein while North American did. As a result even though Japan has a much smaller beef herd than Canada or the U.S. they had multiple BSE positives in a short time using only surveillance testing. Japan chose to hide the positives from their public and as a result consumer confidence in their domestic beef was destroyed. North American beef is much safer than Japanese beef whether or not Japan will admit that. That is proven by the surveillance testing that has been in place for years in North America. And lets not forget that in 2003 Japan raised the tariff on imported beef from 33% to 50%. They would have raised the tariff to 100% if they could have. This underlines the real reason for Japan’s political stance... protectionism. The solution is not to test all beef, the solution is to remind Japan of its international obligations.

[raymondb]

Test all animals and use these tests to prove the science. The cost of testing is small compared to the losses suffered to date. If the packers are not allowed to test, what is stopping the producer from testing and then certifying that the animal was BSE free when it left his farm? These animals can then be tagged as BSE tested with the date of test on the tag. Producers then have control of the product they supply the feedlot or packer. Boy-for $18.00/animal, I would test.
If the science was 100% proven-the consumer and or government must accept it-If they do not, then we have proof that the crisis we face is not related to BSE but probably political.

[raymondb]

rsomer..... as far as "Producers forgetting that our beef is safe."
I will disagree with you. We all know that two isolated cases of BSE, which cannot be ultimately connected to feed related theories nor human cases of vCJD, have no case for any border closures. This BSE BS is nothing but a protectionist game and we are all looking for solutions that may not make sense. The whole story makes no sense, so the solution may have to as well.

[blackjack]

rsomer... are we just going to keep letting the Americans and Japanese hold our industy hostage while we all go broke? If testing will open markets what are we waiting for!

[jensend]

it seems to me the first country to start blanket testing has the advantage. you reassure your domestic consumers that their health and food safety are primary concerns, more export markets should open up even if the americans attempt to make our life harder by moving ahead - they don't hold as mich influence as they used to; witness japan - and if the americans ever admit to a homegrown case of bse their consumers can demand our product which should by then have proven history of being safe. the only rational explanations for not testing are fear of what is really out there in which case we are doomed by waiting for the powderkeg to explode and the vain hope that the americans will abide by the oie and trade agreements and let our animals in. we are at their mercy and by not testing we are playing right into their hands.

[rsomer]

Yes we, as an industry, are being held hostage. Terrorists come in many forms. Some wear turbins and some wear business suits. Japan knows that the Canadian and North American beef producer is vulnerable and can be effectively subjected to economic pressure. The Canadian beef industry is the victim of terrorist activities just like the three Japanese hostages in Iraq. As a nation and an industry we cannot bow to terrorist demands. If the Canadian beef producer and the North American beef industry cave in to these kind of irrational demands that amount to protectionism in the guise of food safety what is next? Where will it ever end? Countries all over the world wish to protect their domestic industries and are willing to use various excuses to do so. For better or worse science is the only rational decision making tool we have to work with in these situations. Political pressure, consumerism, protectionism are not objective determinants of right. The science says North American beef is safe. The Japanese will not agree to international mediation which says a lot. Japan cannot continue to export its products to the world but continue to deny access to imports. A U.S. delegation including trade representatives is going to Japan April 25. A solution will be found that will be science based.

[grassfarmer]

rsomer, Interesting that you see the "Canadian" and "North American" beef industries as being the victims of terrorist actions by the Japanese. Surely all you accuse them of is doubly true of the American treatment of Canada? The fact that Creekstone wants to commit to testing and selling to Japan indicates they do want to trade. Looks to me like the packers are leaning on the Governments as usual to stop any talk of testing - it would cost them a little of their profit if it came about - why would they want to do that when they are making good money just now and only the producer of fat cattle is getting screwed?

[whiteface]

I adore the passion expressed by so many of the writers os these threads. We all know the meat is safe and we also all know that this has gone far beyond any "science." It is now all about politics, who can bully whom, which side can make the other blink first and we all know that but lets fight fire with fire. So there's no need to test from a safety standpoint, let's test from a marketing standpoint. I raise purebred cattle and marketing and standing behind your product is everything to the consumer. I would like to prove beyond any doubt that the safeguards work and their aren't anymore cases out there but if there are we'll find them and it won't hurt the industry further because we'll know exactly where they are. Rather the devil you can see than the one you can't. If the consumer wants tests, we test even if only for a while to prove our point, to save our industry. I would love to pressure whomever it takes in Canada to be allowed to do our own tests. Why are we okay with just sitting here waiting to see what someone else decides for us? By the way, I think there are so many good points made on these threads, I for one spend exorbant amounts of time harrassing anyone I can think of that has more power than me to get a solution together, I hope more of you with some of these good arguments are doing the same. Tell the people that actually might get some doors unlocked all the things that we feel here.

[rusty1]

I quess I'm a little daffy. I don't ubderstand anyone prompoting testing without in the same BREATH, talking about what and who is going to determine what exactly will happen when we find the next BSE by testing everything?

[jensend]

i think the idea of blanket testing is that you eliminate the food safety issue by not letting an infected animal into the human food supply. to me this is better than playing russian roulette with sampling. if you read other discussion forums there is still some uncertainty about the science and if they are talking about blood tests to determine infection then blood must be carrying some indicator of prions if not the prions themselves. if the science is uncertain you have to go to a higher level of precaution which means more testing until the science is refined or the risk is eliminated. call it a food safety issue or a marketing issue but it doesn't matter if it both ensures the safety of the product and increases sales. i think the 'terrorists' are south of the 49th and we are the hostages. cca, abp, etc. are nibbling at the bait that usda offers up (we're in the process of opening the border) and a lot of producers' livelihoods are being eroded by this waiting game. rusty1 - you ask what will happen with blanket testing when the next positive is found; at least with the universal testing we do have the defence of protecting the consumer. when the next positive comes up with only sampling i know the border will slam shut again and it will be too late for many of us to wait it out. start testing now and claim some markets before we are locked out for years to come.

[skeeter]

The message to consumers has been and should be that testing does not make the beef any safer. Testing cattle under thrity months is like testing little girls for prostate cancer. By removing the SRMs from the human food chain you remove the infective agent. By having an effective feed ban in effect you should stop the amplification of the disease in the cow herd as long as there is no cross feeding. You do need to test a percentage of high risk over thirty month cattle to see if the feed ban is effective and to what extent you have the disease in a national herd. Canada and the US are both ramping up this survielance testing over the next months and years to see where we are at. High risk cattle are deads, downers, diseased and distressed this is where you get the most bang for your testing buck. Blanket testing for a single country or customer is like a car manufacturer putting an air-bag in the trunk for a single customer great if you can charge more for it but what if you can't? Then the manufacturer bears the extra cost and what does he tell all his other customers when they demand air-bags or testing as well; gee I was just doing it for him not everybody. The americans know it is in their best interest to recognize Canada as a minimal risk country and accept imports from us because if they have a case or two THEY still want to be able to export. We do need trade rules that allow for additional cases as long as a country has mitigations in place and I understand those are being worked on.
Our critical problem in Canada is slaughter capacity the boreders are open to our beef the US,Mexico and eleven other countries will take our beef. The problem is getting them into a box! Testing extra cattle to ship a few tons to Japan doesnt releive this problem. North America needs to show we can trade with each other and reason with Japan basing our arguments on science.

[raymondb]

If the air bag only cost $18.00, every car would have one- just like every car will have the "black box" in the future.

The science related to BSE is unproven. If it was proven, every animal would have been tested years ago. They were not tested years ago because there was no quick reliable test. Today, we can do a blood test at the farm for $18.00(at least this is the figure that is talked about) Lets prove the test and then lets ensure we can get rid of BSE. Is it only caused by feed? Is it a natural occurring disease? Is it related to a particular gene? Are we 100% positive that an animal under 30 months will not have this disease but magically at 31 months it gets this disease? We have way more questions than answers-lets get the answers.

[cswilson]

I think the test everything theory has the USDA worried because they know that they will find another positive-it is almost a certaintity.