The Harder solution?

[cowman]

Anybody read Stan Harders article in the Alberta Express? It is called "Overproducing in a non-existent market".
The basic premise of this article is we are massively over producing cattle for an export market that no longer exists and is not likely to be profitable until we get the supply side in control.
He contends that eventually the tax payer will become fed up with supporting an industry that continues to overproduce at a loss, but would generally be supportive if they saw we were moving toward a solution of sustainability.
His solution: Get all cattle off the public lands. Turn these lands into nature preserves, or green belts or whatever. He claims this will reduce the cow herd to a point where the supply is closer to the domestic demand.
Now I suspect there might very well be something to this? After all we do know from a financial point of view the Alberta taxpayer would be much better off if there were no cows on the crown land. The last figure I heard was $37 million dollars better off(and that was several years ago)???
I wonder if there are any stats on how many cattle are grazing public lands? What percentage of the cow herd is eating government grass? Would the elimination of these cattle get our supply in balance with the demand?
And finally how much does the government in fact give up in oil and gas revenue for each cow grazing public lands?

[rsomer]

I have not read the article but do have some comments on what you have written here.
A market, both domestic and export does exist for our beef right now and soon for live cattle. What is non existent is a working marketplace until we regain access to competition. However, it would seem as the easy answer put forth to solve the problems in the beef industry is to shrink the size of the industry. Somehow that should make the problem smaller. I think that is a poor solution.

First, there is not global overproduction of beef. There is not even overproduction of beef within North America. If your author believes there is Canadian overproduction of beef because we export a portion of our production then maybe he believes there is overproduction of oil and gas because that is exported too.

I would question whether the taxpayer is better off if there was no cattle on public lands. I would argue the taxpayer would be better off if there were no public lands as that land should be owned privately. It makes no difference what percentage of the Alberta beef herd is grazing crown land any more than it makes any difference what portion of the herd is grazing privately owned rented land. The government gives up nothing in oil and gas revenue on public lands, the compensation government receives from industry is the same no matter what the use of the surface. Alberta has two major primary resource industries, mining (oil and gas is mining) and agriculture. I would think agriculture has the best potential for long term growth in future generations.

It is obvious that exporting has its problems. Especially with a perishable product like beef. There are lots of solutions, they will just take some time to put in place. In a short while BSE will be just a bad memory and new problems will have taken its place. Those problems will be met as well and the industry will continue to grow.

[nerves]

Part of the problem of shrinking the cattle industry would mean just opening up the import market that much more. It is already a huge problem how do we compete with Argentina, Australia and the like. We need politicans with backbone and vison to realize what this import market is doing to argiculture in our own country.

[nakodo]

Hmm Imported beef competes with Cdn beef on price (unless you like grass fed I doubt you will pay a premium for it). to keep them out we need to be sure to produce enough beef to keep the price down to where they cannot compete? I argue let the argentinians have the grinding meat market if we can capture premium markets in the US. Our problem is the US was our largest buyer of grinding meat too!

We are an industry with two markets, domestic and the US, we are better off getting our tests in a row to export to other high paying markets than trying to keep out low cost producers.

[Horse]

Cowman you are right and rsomer I dont know where you get such info but the facts are 5702 grazing leases 1302900 aum 5225454 acres 228 avg aum 916 acres avg . 594 permits 31200 aum 125515 acres , 161 forest grazing lisnces 16840 aum 113499 acres . 789 grazing head tax permits 718927 acres ( aum stands for animal unit mounth)
the govmt gets app 3.5 mill in fees and the lease holders get app 40 mil in anual payments plus any sismic pipelines and entry fees along with grass for 1.39$ per aum to 3.79 per aum in the south as well they got the land payments of $4.18 or whatever it was the govmt made a few yr ago it paid thier rent for app 10 yrs so if the govmt was to not renew the leases in this province mabey they could find a few more dollars to spread around and the tourist industry would take off if the cows wernt shitting in all the moutian streams and tramping the banks in I hear the feds are going to get tough on such practices but will believe it when I see it . It is hard to compete when some get all thier bills paid by govmt handouts you can check all the info out on the govmt of alta home page then go to public lands.

[cowman]

I think Harder was referring to the fact that we have become over reliant on a shaky export market? One that can change on a whim? And maybe that is not a good thing when the Canadian taxpayer has to pick up the tab? Because the Canadian taxpayer won't put up with that forever?
Maybe the time has come. Time to get the cows off crown land...time to reduce the cow herd? Let's face it who can last the longest...the guy running cows on private land paying $150/year to graze his cow or the guy getting paid to run his cow on crown land? Eventually the only cows left will be the "welfare" cows!
Is it a bad thing to have natural areas owned by the government? It would make more sense financially to sell them I suppose, but is that what the average Albertan wants?
The fact is the Alberta taxpayer pays a price for every cow that is grazing crown land and that is a fact not a bunch of smoke and mirrors!

[rsomer]

Cowman: your comments would have more credibility if you have crown land.

The guy that will last the longest is the one who is grazing his cows on paid for deeded land that he inherited from his parents.

Yes, you are right when you say "The fact is the Alberta taxpayer pays a price for every cow that is grazing crown land and that is a fact not a bunch of smoke and mirrors!" The taxpayer also pays a price on every log cut on crown land (check out the softwood lumber dispute) and every barrel of oil taken from crown mineral leases. The province justifies this cost as it sees a benefit to the whole economy by encouraging development of primary resources.

Now is not time to reduce the cow herd, now is the very time for producers with vision to expand as cows can be still purchased for more reasonable prices than in prior years. The long term fundamental underlying economics of the Alberta beef industry remain unchanged even if the short term profitability picture has. Where the cow herd will decrease is in the U.S. and Canadian producers are well positioned to capitalize on that.

Yes, we have become dependent upon a shaky export market. A shaky export market that a lot of other countries would love to gain access to. Our problem with export markets would largely be solved if we developed the ability to process our own live cattle as that is where the most of the problem lies. Therein lies the answer, not reduce the cow herd.

[cowman]

Well I suppose it's all in how you look at it. And in the end I guess it will be up to our elected leaders and the people of Alberta who will decide if the cows stay or go. I suspect their time is limited but it won't happen overnight.
I'm not so sure anymore about whether Alberta should be trying to increase the cattle. It seems to me that some of the so called advantages we have are sort of false? And I suspect that when the government brings in their new enviro/pollution type laws that some cattle will have to go? Our farmers are getting sick of growing cheap barley to feed cattle. If the day ever comes when they can grow roundup ready canola every year I suspect barley will be history?
I personally don't like how the cattle industry has been evolving, but then I've seen a whole lot of changes in my life and not just in agriculture! And I was against just about every one of them... so what can I say?
I am fascinated by the new ideas in agriculture and by just how much money some of these things have the potential
to generate. Berrys, market gardens, ag-tourism. I do believe that is the true future in agriculture...let the South Americans and Aussies take care of the cheap food.

[rsomer]

When you say "I suspect their time is limited" I am thinking do you mean the cows or the elected leaders. lol

[rsomer]

Would you possibly include niche market cattle projects with your berries and agritourism cowman? The ever increasing spread between rich and poor in this country is creating a larger consumer base with money they are willing to spend on an extremely priced restaurant meal.

[cowman]

Well yes, I guess anything that basically isn't a commodity will probably do fairly well...especially as long as the baby boomers are around!
But I do believe the days of cattle, hogs, and wheat are pretty well done. They can raise all of those commodities cheaper somewhere else.