First Thing Monday Morning

[Joe-2]

Hi all,I'm new to this site.I've followed it for a while but never posted.I have a cow/calf/background operation in Mb.
I'm not only tired of this "the border will open soon" BS, I just can't afford to play that game anymore.
Monday morning I am going to start screaming long and loud to anyone that will listen,that we need to start testing 100% for BSE. I'm talking phone calls to MLA's,MP's,municipal leaders,media,you name it!!
ENOUGH ALREADY. To hell with common sense.Perception is where it's at!!!

[rusty1]

I understand you're frustration and you're pretty close to right about perseption. I just trust that as you do you're ranting that you include a "locked down" policy world wide as to what will happen when another is found. OK

By the way welcome to the form.

[whiteface]

Joe, I'm with you 1000%, whatever backup you require, I'm there, of course you all know that. I think everybody knows where I stand and that I intend to follow through as much as I'm able with my small herd but signifigant contributions to the purebred industry. Welcome to forum from myself as well and rusty, if I may ask, what do you mean "locked out?"
We produce, we test, for sure we find more, I guarantee that more than 2 cows were originally infected and with advanced meat recovery machines, infected cows were, at the very least, fed to chickens and pigs if not cows themselves through our lax policing of the rendering/feed industries and so the disease quietly gets past us. For sure, we'll find more, not many, but more and then it's a non isuue because we know where they are, not in the feed...for people or animals. Then all this funding to support Bush's re-election, saving the farmers, whatever, can go to finding out about these new Transmissable spongiforms that surely will find their way into every species in one way or another...Scrapie, chronic wasting, BSE, really needs to be dealt with if we are in fact talking about food safety and consumer confidence otherwise we're just as guilty preaching beefs safe, open the border, save our livlihoods. Let's deal with this on the ground floor. Test our cattle, open our markets, save our buts (both our livlihoods and our health) I really think I'm right here - I mean tell me if I'm out to lunch guys, do you see a permanent lock out when we find another case? Creekstone claims to have a buyer for their tested meat and I don't see anyone spending the amount of money it took them to open a lab facility to test if they weren't pretty darn confident they'd have a market.

[kato]

Welcome, Joe. From another Manitoba producer. (You know, one of the ones with no slaughter facilities? LOL)

I wrote to Roseanne back in January, and guess what? I got an answer! Yesterday!

You might as well start at the top. Roseanne is out of ideas.

Prime Minister Paul Martin

email pm@pm.gc.ca

I've sent him my email, and I hope more people do the same.

You know, it's funny, but if a company decided to test all it's beef for e-coli before sale they would be applauded. Why is BSE any different? Could it be that there is no political agenda attached to e-coli?

I hate to be cynical, but the way I see it, if we are willing to cough up an extra 30 dollars to test the cattle and get a better return, why are we prevented?

Could it be that WE would be the only ones to benefit? After all, the packers are doing very nicely right now, thankyou. Why on earth would they want anything to change?

The threat to test would do a lot toward making our neighbours to the south sit up and listen. They are going through the same debate right now.

As we saw on Dec.20, it ain't real until it happens in the States.

[rsomer]

I am curious what benefit we would gain by testing 100%.

Correct me if I am wrong but our packers are killing all they can right now. The reality is there is a good market today, at this very moment, for everything we can get dead. Our problem is not lack of markets due to not testing 100% but lack of access to packers and competition.

We don't need 100% testing, we need to get our animals to a packing plant. That extra packing plant capacity is sitting idle in the U.S. waiting for our live calves to move across the border.

If you can't afford to play the 'border will open soon game' there are others that will buy your cattle and play that game for you. And when the border opens they will get well paid. A lot of those playing the 'border will open soon game' right now are Americans. You can figure out for yourself if they know what they are doing.

[topper]

Rsomer makes a good point. Without increased kill capacity testing will do us no good at all. We need to pressure our leaders to increase our slaughter capacity and once thats done maybe then testing could be an option!

[cakadu]

Always great to see someone new taking the plunge and getting their feet wet. Welcome aboard.

Don't forget along with the slaughter capacity will have to come the storage capacity to wait for test results, if testing was approved.

Were my eyes playing tricks on me or did I see somewhere (maybe even in the newsroom here on this site) that the chief vet in this province said he would say no to 100% testing as it wasn't warranted?

[blackjack]

rsomer ... like kato says if we test for ecoli whats the big deal if they test for BSE! Is it not true the packers already had to make changes to take out the parts of the animal that was high risk. What's the big deal if we go the one more step and test? Like so many other ranchers I talk to,they too are getting very tired of the sound science excuse the politicians have been using ! rsomer ... perception from the US ranchers is that Canada has BSE and they don't. Why not as Canadians take the bull by the horns and get our own BSE tested branded beef !

[Joe-2]

Well of course 100% testing is unwarranted.So was closing the border.So is losing more equity.So is spending $450 to feed a cow that is worth nothing.
What I'm getting at is our strategy of doing nothing isn't working.More slaughter capacity is easier said than done and takes time.Massive cull?? Out of the question.
That leaves getting the border open to live cattle.
Let's put some pressure on the elected or wannabe elected.Demand testing and let them explain to consumers why they can't have it.Maybe it could become an election issue.Why not throw a fit? It works for Quebec and it beats sitting around slowly going broke.I suspect that just the threat of testing everything might rattle enough chains.
I've only been at this 4 years so I'm probably on thinner ice than some of the more established guys.Time IS a factor.

[topper]

Joe- Lets suppose for the sake of arguement that Speller announced this morning that we can test 100% of our cattle. What would that accomplish? Our exisiting packers are already exporting all the beef they can put through their plants and our domestic markets are eating more beef than ever so where could we sell all this tested beef? Just curious to see what you think 100% testing would lead to.

[cowman]

Without a doubt testing is not going to happen...I'm sorry but thats just how it is? Our masters have stated that very clearly?
And make no mistake here...America owns us body and soul!
Of course we've lost so much money that we could have bought every packing plant in north American many times over! And I would suggest the test would have been cheaper than all the expense of removing SRMs, segregated kills, establishing ages of cattle etc.?
I often wonder why? Why is there so much resistance to testing? In my darker moments I wonder if they are afraid of what they really might find?
Perhaps a larger problem than what they estimated? And who would be liable for that???
The deer/elk population in Colorado is apparently heavily infected with CWD. Now how can that be? I doubt that anyone was out feeding them cows brains or sheeps spinal cords? So how in the hell did they get it, how did they pass it around so freely?
The "science" says BSE/CWD/scrapie/ CJD
can't be passed in the blood. The science says it can't be passed to offspring. So how come they killed those 450 dairy calves in Washington? How come they won't let you donate blood if you lived in England during the epidemic? One of the screening questions, when you donate blood, is has anyone in your immediate family had CJD! If yes...they don't want your blood!
What would ever happen if the North American consumer percieved his meat was not safe at all...in fact might be a death sentence? Would it basically be the end of the entire industry?
Now I'll probably be knocked as a fearmonger and get a lot of quotes on how safe the beef supply is, but the simple fact is nobody knows unless we test every darned animal we slaughter? And the sad part is it will cost us nothing in comparison to what we've lost already? And furthermore it just might be the pro-active thing that might save our industry if this thing is bigger than we suspect. And save untold human suffering.

[whiteface]

Good points raised here about testing granted say tommorrow we would still need more slaughter capacity. I agree with that. More slaughter capacity and less monopoly, but if any one is going to put out the cash to increase slaughter capacity, they would have to have a market for the meat to go, that's where permission to test comes in. Nobody wants to pay fo a multi-million doallar plant with nowhere to sell the meat!!! This is exactly the spot that Creekstone is in. At the very least doing more of what isn't working will not make it work any better! Some of you may be financially able to wait but then why wait...what are you going to do, spend your whole life waiting for something that they don't plan to make happen. Hows that for passive-aggressive. No business has ever succeded just sitting around waiting, besides we tried that one, where did it get us? I like these ideas comeing to the forefront now I would like us to "Have a fit!" as Joe said and do something about it. You've got a lot of drive Joe, I sure can identify with, sometimes it takes a young guy to make some much needed changes. We need BSE to be dealt with much more aggressively if raising beef cattle globally will survive. The disease is there and must be tackled and not feared and not covered up. We raise, we build facilities, we test, we market, we own our own problem and stop depending on the States to "love or save us."

[Muttley]

The perception that we need 100% testing will only send a negative message that we have a unsafe product. We need to send the message that because of our safety measures allready in effect we have a safe food supply.

Sending messages and phoning is good only if it is done in a positve way. Ranting for the sake of ranting only sends a message of frustration. If you are going to do this make sure you have some figures and answers to give. Telling coffee shop gossip will not open the border.

I spend a good deal of time working with farmers in the states. It is my feeling from them that many especially the cow calf guys and purebred breeders are having a better than average year do to the border being closeed. Less animals from here is meaning more money for them!!!!

And those that feel the border will open soon are fooling them selves. It's election time in the states and George will do nothing that will loose votes. I predict another year before we see alot of movement. Just look at that judges decision,it's election time for him to.

[Muttley]

Yes we will find more cases of BSE if we test everything. BSE is caused by a severe chemical imbalance in a cows system. This chemical imbalance may be brought on by changes in her diet, chemicals in her environment, or a combination of many other phenotypical factors. I don't beleive that anyone has proven inconclusively that BSE is passed from cow to cow through feed, and I am certain that no one has proven without a doubt that BSE or any other spongiform problem can pass from one species to another in any way. We have decided to follow one mans theory (Prusiner the American) and ignore all other science. You should read what this wacho, who began the theory we follow, is saying now.

Yes testing is unecessary and we will find more chemically imbalanced cattle if we test.

The whole world will no longer change it's mind over the standing theory of BSE, so we need to deal with this the best we can. Future generations may see a dismantleing of this whole concept of "transmisible" spongiform encephalpathy which will reduce or eliminate the "transmisible" aspect, but we have to deal with it now.

Cargil and Tyson will not test in Canada unless the Canadadian goverment foots the bill "AGAIN". So we must go after the government.

Yes testing will solve a portion of our problem, and we may well see our product accepted so well by the huge and ever more lucrative Asian market that Cargill and Tyson will grab the bucks like good little capitalists and start to show their own American owners that money can be made by doing things other than the American way.

Our Canadian industry is too large and too special to go back to simply producing what we need at home. I know that it is an almost impossible task, but if we could all get together on this and realise that an open US border, however money related tempting it may be, will not solve any long term problems related to BSE. What do you think rsomer? And some of them have now shown their true colors as to who they are going to kick the next time there is a problem in our industry.

Have a wonderful day, and yes I to am glad to hear new voices here on Agri-vation dot com.

[Willowcreek]

Muttley- I think you are right about the US cow/calf man and prices. They are experiencing record high cull cattle prices (I have seen large old bulls sell for $79) and have buyers falling over each other trying to contract calves for this fall. I have heard of offers of $1.15 for 575lb steers. Been offered $1.02 for 600 weights. And this is way early in the year. Usually you have to call the buyer- but not this year. Makes everyone down here wonder what the price may be in Nov.

Whether this is because of or tied to the closed border, I don't know- but a lot of US producers sure think it is.