Price Gouging?

[grassfarmer]

Our vet seems to be trying to follow the Packers lead. Got a bill this morning for having him come out and calve a cow with a twisted uterus. The cow was one of my two "crazies" - wild and dangerous so I was dismayed when I saw she needed help calving. I got her in and couldn't get the calf straightened up so called for the vet as she wasn't getting released from the squeeze until she was safely calved.
He calved her inside 25 minutes although he did manage to get kicked on the knee while she had the calf puller on her - a career first fot the vet!
The bill:
$103 for a "standard calving"
$32 extra because it was after 5pm.
$50 mileage (at $2 per km - makes the hay haulers look cheap!)
$10.92 medical materials - which is a joke as I supplied hot water, my calving chains and puller as his was tucked away in the truck when he decided he needed them. He only used one plastic glove plus a shot of disinfectant into the water!
Grand total $209.84
Are these about standard charges? I'm just glad that thus far these have been the only medical expenses associated with calving. I have 100 calved now and for the first time in my life have had not one case of calf scours. I am enjoying the move to later calving getting away from all the cost and work of winter calving. I still grudge the vet over $200 though!

[whiteface]

Sounds like your vet might be like a car mechanic - the less you need him the more he has to charge you for each visit - gotta pay for his new diesel truck somehow. Good luck with the rest of your calving, hope you got some rain in the last day or so. :-)

[nerves]

Grassfarmer there seems to be a new attitude with the vets now days. Our vet told me about this course he took a while back about how he could charge more, lose a few customers, have less work and make more money. I have not called him for close to a year and a half.(nor do I plan to) I wonder how his business is doing. Maybe the drug charge was for him that crack on the knee may have forced him to dig into his bag of goodies.

[ivbinconned]

I guess the question is, "in relation to what"? Its hard to begrudge the large animal vet when in comparison if you take your 15 year old Spanial to the little animal vet to get its teeth pulled with needed exrays etc. etc. and they want $500.00.

Although it was kind of amuseing to see the perplexed look on his face when I expressed shock and said I would take our beloved old pet home and put her out of her misery.

[grassfarmer]

My answer would be "in relation to what the calf might be worth" I don't really grudge them making a living it just seems a lot to pay relative to the value of farm animals.
On the pet treatment line we had an excellent vet in Scotland that was absolutely livid when one of their clients got intricate hip replacement done on an old labrador dog. The operation was beyond the vets capability so a human surgeon did it - at a time when health service waiting lists were lengthy. Now is it right that a rich guy can pay to have their pet treated at the expense of a poorer human needing the same operation?

[cswilson]

Welll come to think of it I haven't seen to many rich fat large animal vets -they tend to be more on the starved out crippled side of things. I never begrudge those guys their fees like I said they go to school for six very expensive years and enter a thankless proffession. It's almost as bad as being an A.I. tech lol.

[cowman]

Well if it was the doctor doing the same thing he'd probably charge about $20,000 so I guess it's fairly reasonable?
The large animal vet doesn't get rich. I mean how long did this take him? An hour? A half decent lawyer charges $250/hr. and what does an accountant charge? And it is unlikely your accountant is going to get booted in the leg by a ledger! Or have to do his work at two in the morning with a south east wind blowing and 40 below and the books tied up to a willow tree!?
Just figure the whole thing like this: You paid $200. You have 100 calves. Therefore your calving cost was $2/calf...not a big deal at all, right?

[whiteface]

Thanks for the laugh, cowman. A very accurate comparison.

[ivbinconned]

In saskatchewan you can get an MRI tonight for your cat....but for you ...the human,6 to 18 months!

[CattleAnnie]

I understand where you're coming from, Grassfarmer.
I had a first calf heifer that needed a C-section. Calf was too large for the head to make it through the pelvis (gotta love those guys that claim their animals were bred angus when the calf was Sim sired).
Anyway, called both vet clinics - one was up north, wouldn't be home for hours, one was at his clinic, couldn't come out for an hour, but would work on her. Figured that with my distance from town (35 min or 45 with stock trailer attached) would be faster if I hauled the heifer into town.
So I loaded her, hauled in, assisted with the operation, loaded her and the dead calf back into the trailer and went home.
The next morning when I checked her she had prolapsed. The neighbours helped but her back in and we sewed her up.
She never quit straining, and by evening had ripped out all the stitches from her vagina (what a mess) and was prolapsing again. I couldn't get ahold of the original vet who preformed the c-section, so had to use another to fix her up. Yet another trip in the trailer.
Cost of C-section - $330.00
(in his clinic)
Cost of Fixing Prolapse - $70.00
(in yet another clinic)
Cost of fuel - don't even want to think about it.
The thing that I don't understand is the afterhours charge... aren't odd hours part and parcel of being a large animal vet in a ranching community?
That would be like a rancher complaining about having to get up to calve out his cows, or put in long hours during haying time. It's what you expect when you get into the line of work.
Sure hope I can stay in business a few more years... maybe I can put one of their kids through college. Doesn't look like I'll be able to afford to send mine.
Take care.

[pandiana]

I have to agree with both points of view on this one.

We do need large animal vets and yes, it is getting increasingly more difficult to get dedicated vets to slosh through manure in cold barns dealing with animals that can and often do cause injury or worse. Contrast this with the small animal vet as pointed out above, who gets very well paid, often works in a clinic with minimal after hours.

On the other hand, I too find it very frustrating that when our industry is suffering, veterinaries would find this time to raise their fees. Vets that I have dealt with have increased their fees steadily through drought and BSE. In addition, they seem to be able to find more 'incidentals' to charge for.

It could be argued that these increases are just like every other service sector which require a cost of living adjustment. But herein lies the problem. Cattle producers are faced with doing many of the same things that vets do. As grassfarmer and cattleannie relate, they work many overtime hours, use syringes and meds, pull calves, but have no way of charging for these services. They are considered 'cost saving' not 'value added'. Every time another bill comes in with addition charges or a rate increase, it feels like a kick in the head to someone already fighting for their existence.


Primary producers do not get 'cost of living' adjustments to cover the rising cost of doing business. Each increase in fuel, vet fees, fertilizer, utilities, taxes, etc. etc. continues to erode the paltry income the producer is able to glean. I certainly don't begrudge our veterinaries or other farm service organizations the right to earn a decent living. However, when your customers are cash strapped, it would seem to me a poor time to increase fees.

[kato]

In Manitoba a new fee schedule comes out every January 1st, from the MVMA.

My boss, the vet, didn't have us put the new fee schedule into the computer until after calving was mostly over. (Last week). He also adopted a policy of not pestering anyone for money this year.

I wish our feedmill had adopted the same policy! LOL they turned into a bunch of moneygrubbers halfway through the winter. Just about drove us crazy.

[cakadu]

Kato, I think in way that is what is so sad about this whole mess. People who normally could let things ride until the "cheque came in the mail" cannot do that now.

I'm sure companies are struggling with having to come to people and request the money just as much as producers are feeling bad with not being able to pay their bills in a timely fashion. No one wants to feel like they are freeloading or conversely hounding someone for money.

Businesses need the money to continue operating, just as producers need to be able to move their products to get paid. It is a viscious circle that just keeps getting nastier by the day. It will be very interesting to see who is left standing at the end of the day. I hope many are still there when the dust settles.