A Political Idea..? Attn: Kato

[kato]

Now, if we could take this debate to the streets we might get something going!

My biggest worry is that we are going to get lost in this election. Shoved to the back of the house and forgotten. The time to instigate change is before the election, not after.

Ya, I know, election promises, never followed up on, ya da ya da ya da. But better to have a promise thrown your way than to try and get some action out of a government that's looking at a good solid four years of not having to listen to anyone.

If this essay gets circulated enough it just might start up some dialogue that could actually lead to something.

As of right now, our neighbours to the south are under the comfortable impression that there is nothing we can do to help ourselves, and they will get around to tossing us a bone every once in a while just to make sure we don't do anything silly like start to think for ourselves.

Open border or not, it would be dangerous to go back to business like it was pre-BSE without any changes.

If we did, then when the Americans get their cow, and they probably will, whether they like it or not, then we will go down with them. R-Calf has tossed enough "dangerous beef, one BSE cow, shut the border quick and never open it again" rhetoric around that there is bound to be fallout. The only way to avoid it is an effective Triple S policy, or some really horrible news that will distract the media. Neither one of those scenarios is what anyone would wish for.

If the border opens tomorrow, good, but we should still remember the last year, and try not to fall back into our old ways. More packing facilities, especially producer owned, would still be good insurance. And one good way for them to compete with the big boys is to sell tested beef to customers who are looking for it.

[dalek]

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/SenatorsMembers_house.asp?Language=E&parl=37&ses=2 &Sect=hoccur

This should give you a list of all the MPs and senators emails. If it doesn't work, the link is at the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, www.ofa.on.ca, under the government links. There used to be a link there to send an email to the entire parliament but I don't see it now.

[15444]

You have got it, Kato. The idea that everyone should go back to shipping tons of live cattle over the border once it opens, whether they be over or under 30 months, shows what is truly wrong with this industry. At that point, we would only be begging to be hung by our ankles by the US again once we find another positive. And, if it went that way, at that point, I would probably advocate for the closure of the border indefinately. Then we would have the chance to get past this notion that our industry is joined at the hip with the US.

It's pretty simple. Quit wasting money. Money contributed to the cattle industry by Ottawa and the provinces goes to two things - universal testing and more producer-owned packing plants. The checkoff dollars that we all pay?..they go to two things - universal testing and more producer-owned packing plants. And when the plants are built and the logistics of blanket testing in place, we announce to the world what we have done.

And for those producers who didn't contribute one cent to the building of the producer-owned packing plants, they get to ship their cattle to Cargill, IBP, XL, Better Beef and Levinoff Meats (all of whom of course, whined against mandatory testing and never implemented it, allowing them to save money and continue to ship boneless beef under 30 months to the US).

[cowman]

Now let me see if I have this right? If I, as a producer, don't "participate" in building a plant I can't sell to those plants? But my checkoff dollars still go into that plant as well as my taxes? Doesn't sound very fair to me.
Maybe it would be a better idea if we skip all the government money and checkoff money and just let the producers who want to invest reap all the rewards of their little adventure into meat packing?
I suspect that when the dust settles on this whole sorry affair, we'll still basically have three large packers or maybe a fourth(Swifts)? I don't doubt that more plants will probably be built, but I doubt they will be able to compete with the big packers, who really know how to play the game! Why do people continue to think that things will be all rosy if they build a big plant? They couldn't compete before BSE and once that border cracks open they will be run out of business in short order. If you want to make them viable you need legislation in place to "protect" them from the real world...and that ain't going to happen?

[cowman]

As rsomer says; lets review the problem.

Canadian cattle producers have bore and continue to bear the brunt of the discovery of BSE in Canada. With the minor exception of our Canadian Taxpayers money which I don't think anyone can deny funneled it's way into the packing industry.

Our leaders, on both sides of the border, continue to stand on the side of non testing as it is not scientifically necessary, while they hold our border closed with no scientific evidence.

America is our best bet for short and long term beef trade due to things like proximity, a wealthy, beef eating population, and similar goals. However they really do not need our beef, they have their own. Good relations with America means nothing, if they have to come in and sweep up what's left of our industry and take it for their own.


Why would we not use the testing issue as a political ploy, as people are doing in the US right now. Every move the US makes is political. Heck, they even have comment periods to hear the will of the people. Not just listen to producer groups like we do here in Canada, made up of elected people from a minority of the industry who don't even have an opposition, to check up on their decisions. Speak out against them, like Cam did, and have your well documented article censored by their governing body.

Lets have a deadline, like the US has. If the border isn't opened by such and such a date, Canada must begin testing. It is Canadian producers who need to be saved from the losses they are incurring on a daily basis. Seems like lots of time to talk, while we loose another group of Canadian producers every day; if not to sheer bankrupcy, then to loss of hope of their industry ever recovering.

[15444]

Cowman

Before I posted that idea, I to thought about the fact that the producer's checkoff dollars and tax money would already be going towards the plants and the testing regime without any further funds. But, I also think that those who truly want to save this industry would pitch in more then what they are ordered to through checkoff and taxes.

And contributing a significant amount of capital, say $100 (out of your pocket) to guarantee a spot for one cull or finished animal in the kill line per year, would also help keep producers focused on protecting that which they have invested in. (aka they would ship animals to a producer-owned plant and protect the security of the investment by helping to provide a steady supply of animals, rather then slip back into the old scheme of shipping animals south when the border opened).

There is nothing wrong with supplying meat to the US, but that is what it has to be, MEAT. It has been one year, and we are still facing, everyday, the consequences of relying on the US for slaughter capacity.

[kato]

That's what I'm getting at! This is politics, so let's play politics.

No open border before June 1, then we have no choice but to begin testing in order to save our industry. Not because the beef is unsafe, not because science says it's necessary, simply and plainly because we need to save our industry while we still have one. We say to our neighbours to the south, "We didn't want to do it, but YOU forced us to. You have no one to thank but yourselves."

I think anyone left standing today can probably hang on a little longer if we knew the slaughter capacity was coming. If we get up in the morning and see no future, then we will not hang on long.

[jensend]

i agree with you kato for the reasons you state and also because the handling of this issue has been too concentrated on what the americans have to say instead of listening to other countries that have been through this. maybe we should look at the countries that have successfully dealt with bse and learn from them. instead, we have the american model of 'let's bend the world to our liking'. that doesn't seem to be working in the beef industry or in the middle east and it's time we quit banging our head against the wall. what is the scientific basis for the kosher handling and processing of beef? there is none; it's demanded by some consumers and acknowledging their preference sells beef. this resistance is orchestrated by some industry players that feel so powerful that they are blind.

[grassfarmer]

One interesting comment in the Cattleman magazine I got yesterday amid all the anti testing propaganda. An American - pointing out the similarity between refusal to test cattle now to satisfy a customer demand and the long standing US versus European Union feud on hormone reared beef. The US tried to force Europe to take it but eventually were ruled against by the World Trade Organisation.
Despite their insistance that the science is good Europe is not buying hormone treated beef - perhaps a lesson for the Anti testing lobby?
Will North America still be unable to export to Japan ten years from now due to the greed of a few multinational meat companies and the sheep that follow them in the guise of ABP, CCA and easily bought politicians?

[kato]

The choice is..proactive or reactive. From what I have seen, in any business, those who choose to be "proactive" will get ahead. The ones who are "reactive" just spend their time putting out fires, and catching up.

Sitting back and waiting for the world to turn back the clock is not going to help us here.

Besides, if we did the testing, wouldn't that reduce the time it takes to become certified BSE free?

[kato]

Two more letters with CAM ATTACHED to Ralph Klein, and Stephen Harper. Keep up the heat kato, you've got me motivated.

[rsomer]

I don’t recall a thread in Agri-ville with so many really thoughtful comments and observations.

If I were to attempt to open the border it would not be to send Cam Ostercamp’s essay to W5 or Ralph Kline. I would take a news crew to Washington and Utah to videotape the shut down packing plants. I would interview the out of work packing plant employees and the businesses in towns throughout the North West U.S. where the local economy is hurting due to no live cattle coming in from Canada. I would take the cameras into the grocery stores and document the high price of beef and the half empty freezer sections. To keep balance I would have R-Calf spouting off how they need to keep out Canadian beef so Montana ranchers can keep enjoying record high prices in between an interview with the American Meat Institute and the NCBA who are supporting a resumption of normalized trade with Canada. Maybe cut in a piece showing President Bush saying it is in the nations best interest to resume live cattle trade with Canada as we close with Rick Pascal doing a interview saying how Alberta is planning to double its own packing industry. Film at 11.

[cowman]

I have to agree with you rsomer. We've had a year of this trying to convince the USA to play fair and it just isn't working. I was saying a long time ago to take it to the American public through advertizments and media events.
The fact is a whole lot of Americans still have no clue that there is any kind of problem? Even their own cattlemen?
In the US the only way anything gets done is when the average Joe gets riled up and demands some solutions from their politicians. This writing letters to Bush etc. doesn't really accomplish much? You need to get the people stirred up...they need to realize they are getting screwed by this closed border? Then and only then will you see the politicians do something?

[jensend]

i think advertising against americans in the states would have limited success right now because they're feeling pretty isolated as it is. we'll have to test if we want to be a major exporter of cattle or beef again because we will need more diversified markets. r-calf has scored a victory with the cebull injunction and will use any kind of trade action in the future on the slightest excuse. i can't understand this resistance to testing unless everybody is scared of what is really out there. if we find more bse than is expected or claimed to be out there it will only mean the americans' estimnate of what's in their herd is wrong too and the world will look at us as preferable to the untested american product.

[jensend]

I think that you have a hell of an idea rsomer, show the true story of beef in the pacific north west. But I also like Cam Ostercamp's way. He has generated more talk in the last week or so than most politicians have in the last year.

Any other ideas out there?

Anything we can do is better than nothing.