Shall we turn up the Heat??

[Joe-2]

Cakadu ,If you have a "positive" message that is going to garner any kind of meaningfull media attention,lay it on me!!!! I'd like to hear it!!
Headlines like "EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT" and "LIFE IS GREAT" do NOT sell newspapers and therefor are not printed.
Exactly what part of "play their game" is it that you do not understand???
Why is everyone so damned worried about damaging consumer demand by 100% testing??? We can speculate all we want about what a false positive might do,history shows us beyond a doubt what a true positive does.Piss all!!!
The only damage I have ever seen caused by negative media reports is to the price of LIVE CATTLE not retail beef prices!!!WAKE UP!!!!
The only thing that will reduce consumer demand for beef is if the price of it gets too far out of line with that of pork or chicken.PERIOD!!!
Stop ignoring the obvious!!!THINK!!!!

[Joe-2]

OK,How about this for my truck signs;
"SOUND SCIENCE SAYS THAT IF YOU CONTRACT vCJD YOU WILL GO CRAZY AND DIE"
"HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR STEAK,TESTED OR UNTESTED"??
Is that over the top?? Too much maybe??
How about this;"IT IS REALLY STUPID TO DEMAND 100% TESTING AS 85% of the BEEF SUPPLY COMES FROM CATTLE UNDER 30 MONTHS OF AGE, BUT PLEASE DEMAND IT OF YOUR GOVERNMENT ANYWAY.THE 2% OF THE POPULATION THAT ARE FARMERS WILL BE FOREVER IN YOUR DEBT".
Which will have the most impact????

[CattleAnnie]

I understand what you're saying, Joe2, about sensationalism selling, however we do have to keep in mind that if you scare the consumers, it will inevitably hinder more than help our cause.
I tend to lean towards a "No More Bull, Ranchers Demand BSE Test" type of slogan. Or "Save A Rancher, Demand BSE Testing".
A rally in Winnipeg would be grand. I wish I had the cash to haul a couple hundred head of cattle up there to pen in front of the meeting site. Two pens. One cows. The other with their calves in it. Bet the bawling would at least get their attention.
Better yet, some cull cows unloaded on Paul Martin's lawn.
Ah, to dream!

[Cedar]

Joe-2:

Fighting fire with fire...just makes more fire! But, Maybe just a few "smoldering embers" would suffice! Perhaps we can aim at trying to beat them at their own game without destroying our Kings, Queens, Castles, Knights, and Bishops....let’s try to keep the pawns intact too! After all, the goal of the game is to "destroy" as many of theirs as possible...but leave as many of ours as possible standing!

May I suggest, something like "We believe our beef is safe (because we know what we feed them), however, the GOVERNMENT and the (“AMERICAN” - ??) MEGA-PACKERS refuse to allow us the chance to prove it! Demand BSE testing for your beef." Using the word "government" in there should get the government's attention?...maybe even give them a reason to chase this thing as an election issue?

I think this sounds a little more positive, however, if you did manage to get media coverage, even with this message, it could do some damage to our industry, as people may simply refuse to eat beef until testing starts....and we all know the price in the store, and everywhere in between us and the store, will once again not be affected, but OURS will! All the middlemen simply adjust their pricing to accommodate....unfortunately we can't do that....for some strange reason!

Joe, I do agree with much of what you say, however, Please be careful of the "angle" you approach these things from, as, if you succeed in getting the media coverage (which would be super, given the right message), ...well, it will affect all of us!!!

If this message could get out there, and then follow up with a "COOL" campaign of our own......????!!!??? Let's face it, with all the shoot, shovel and shutup tactics south of the border, why shouldn't we also have the right to know where our beef is coming from? I really, really, would rather not feed my kids stuff from the states, and I don't say this solely for economic reasons, but for health reasons.

What kind of a reputation do " r-calf, Quebec,Monsanto,CWB" have?????? Given time, they'll fry their own butts!... as long as there are people who know the truth and are willing to share it! Your observations about the consumer are very valid....we need a way to communicate with them more freely and directly. I know a lot of them just don’t care, but for those few who do, a chance to communicate with us could start something that could “mushroom” to the others. I have long wondered about a big (would have to be very popular....somehow) website where anyone concerned about their food could go and ask questions and get answers directly from the people supplying it...sound, honest answers! I think it would be a real eye-opener for a lot of these city-slickers!

I'm not worried about damaging consumer demand by 100% testing...it's the other part of your sign that worries me. You simply cannot go around saying things like "vCJD" kills, that theory is unproven and just too detrimental to the industry as a whole. What would be damaging, however, is if another positive were found with the current small amount of testing. It would create too much uncertainty about the remainder of the beef supply.

By the way, while I certainly do understand your frustration, as I'm sure we all do, and not to say that you should have to spend your "off-farm nestegg" for something like this, that is totally out of your control, I believe you are fortunate to have had those funds available for use at this trying time...some of us are just going further and further in the hole.....that's even worse! There will always be those less fortunate and more fortunate than ourselves.

[PureCountry]

Joe-2 I like your sense of humor. I think you have some great ideas, and nobody should be criticizing you for being so passionate about this mess we're all in. I'm not sure how to word signs and fight fire with fire, but I will say this...my cousin in Moncton, New Brunswick told us that if we really want to be heard, forget the rule book, drop the friggin gloves and blow up a car in front of the county office, provincial buildings, and Parliament Hill. Like he said, if the First Nations or other minority groups want results in Eastern Canada, they damn well get them. They make enough ruckus to get the government making offers to 'quell the rebellion', and then the CBC smoothes out the wrinkles.

When he told me that, I took a little time to think about it. The Run to the Border campaign was nice and poetic and all legal. But when all the supporters had gone home, and the trucks with all the signatures were gone from TVs across the nation, things GOT WORSE.

I don't know what course of action to take, but phoning our local politicians is a dead end road. You get back your letter saying,"Thank you for your questions and concerns...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BULLSHIT!"

Does anything come out of it? NO.

Does anything come out of trying to coordinate farmers and ranchers to rally to a cause? NO!

So I don't know what else to do, but Joe-2, if you're gonna try something different, all the power to ya.

[cakadu]

Joe - maybe you should cut back on the caffeine buddy. :-)

I never said don't test 100% - just be sure of what it is you want it to do before you get that ball rolling. Nor did I say that we have to give messages that are covering up the real truth out there. I don't believe in the rose-colored glasses thing, I would much rather have the truth and don't sugar coat it please.

The causal link between BSE and vCJD is not 100% proven as at least 2 of the cases of it in the U.K. were in vegetarians. Having watched messages get twisted in the media, I am leary about the sensationalism of things because quite often it can backfire.

I admire your passion and if this is something you feel you need to do, then go for it - as long as you are prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions - no matter what those consequences may be. Who knows, in this crazy mixed up world, maybe something like that would work.

Good luck in your ventures.

[whiteface]

I just have to voice an opinion on this thread, it's a good one. What to do now is on everybodys mind. Personally, cattleannie, yours is my favorite, unloading the cull cows on Mr. Martins lawn, maybe shoot them once off the trailer and he can pay the 5 cents a pound to have the renderers haul them away! Certainly save you feeding them! The cows in one pen, calves in the other was a great idea I thought too, let them do our "bellering" for us and theres just about nothing that non-farmer ( or even some farmers for that matter ) dislike more than that pitiful, non-stop wailing of cows and calves separated. Maybe that drills home the point that we feel exactly like them. Joe, I mentioned in another thread that I really appreciate your drive and certainly no one should have to depleate their life savings on something as stupid as this. However, while I fully want 100% testing and have screamed at the top of my lungs for this and am interested in your idea of using the public to help us out with our lobbying of governments to allow it, I'm siding with the majority above, please don't scare anyone. What I've been doing with non-farmer consumers buying our beef is simply highlighting the whole angle of knowing where their product was made, spent it's life, what it was fed, killed humanley and that when they recieve their meat it is the animal I said it was rather than a combination of who-knows-what even road kill who knows?? I too am very uncomfortable with feeding my children any meat bought in the store. I'm not convinced actually that our meat is safe, but I enjoy it as an eating experience and compared to many foods that I buy, I trust my own meat better than just about any food available for sale, "fresh" or packaged. I'm out of ideas Joe, I admire to death that out of all of us you have the drive to forge ahead with new aggression rather than just give up and die. I don't want to scare anyone but media might be the way to get some oil for our wheel. Noise works. You go Joe!! Thanks for not giving up, I won't either.

[whiteface]

Hey Joe, I have been at a loss for words since I read about your signs.
To make this an election issue we do need to involve more than us few farm dogs.

I think the media has already scared the public. I don't think your posters can do any more than the bullshit photos of falling down cows, and then mentally and physically disfigured humans. Those scare tactics did not send our consuming public searching for soy beans.
You might just have something here Joe.
Caffeine or no caffeine your noodle is putting in some major time here.
I kind of like Cedars ideas about the message including a politacal theme.
Lets blame the government and the American packers for not allowing us to test. There must be a catchy slogan in there somehow. One that includes some fear, but directs it at the ones who are doing nothing.

[CattleAnnie]

Thanks Whiteface.
It must be the little devil sitting on my shoulder that puts those thoughts into my head... sometimes he does provide some amusing suggestions.
Wonder if I could get a pledge sheet going at our local auction barn.
Everyone would donate so much, we'd sign our names, address and biggest beefs (pardon the pun) about the current lack of progress regarding the BSE situation.
Then we'd get ahold of some obliging cattleman in the Ottawa area, send him the funds and have him purchase those culls for Paul's lawn ornaments. I don't think I'd shoot 'em though, as that would just get the bleeding hearts up in arms. Just pen them and stick a sign on the gate announcing the 'gift' as one from the cattlemen of Canada to show our appreciation for all he's done. Kind of a grand gesture, akin to when the RCMP gifted Queen Elizabeth II with a black horse they'd raised and trained. A token of our esteem.

[kato]

Kind of like the "buy your friend a ticket on a goat" thing. Where you buy a ticket on a goat, and then designate who you want to win it?

[CattleAnnie]

You're right on the money, Kato!

Congratulations! You won the goat!

[cowman]

Well you may as well go ahead! After all we all get a lot of entertainment out of "a rebel without a cause"!
Not trying to discourage you but that is how you will be seen?
The CCA and the ABP represent "ALL" the cattle producers in Canada...if you don't believe that...then just ask them...they will be happy to let you know?
They are the "official" voice of the cattle industry...and they clearly say NO to testing? So who will Martin listen to?...well obviously the organization that represents the industry?
The CFIA says NO to testing. The USDA says NO to testing. The National Cattlemans Association says NO to testing. The CCA/ABP says NO to testing. The packers and big feedlots say NO to testing.
Joe, what part of NO don't you understand?

[whiteface]

I bet you'd give your berries the shelf cowman and be buying a whole lot more cattle and not get out after all if prices suddenly went right through the roof due to a turnaround in border events and the fact that the Americans have never eaten more beef than they are right now and the Japaneese sure want it to if we'd only test them. And since when have your polititians ever really listened to what your concerns were and voiced them appropriatly anyway. Who the hells side are you on cowman? We need more people to realize that doing more of what hasn't worked will not make it work any better. Thought you had a grasp on that with all your financial sense. I don't know for sure that Joe's idea is the best but I sure do know that waiting for the US to call the shots isn't working either. I want to shake someone up that will actually give us what we need. Doesn't seem to me that anyone who "represents" us has been doing much of that at all.

[cowman]

Actually whiteface, no I wouldn't give up my berries. In my later years I look forward to something that might have potential(and that I can enjoy, again)? However, having said that, I will admit I loved the cattle business! But I made the decisions I made, before BSE. Whiteface, there comes a time...a time to quit. Maybe you need a few years...or maybe you never will feel that way? And that is okay.
I am on the side of the farmer, the cattleman, the little guy...always have been, always will be. These are the guys who make this darned country, not the bloody corporations or the bloody government!
And I don't begrudge Joe his passion to try to change things. I believe I was the voice calling in the wilderness close to a year ago for testing everything? And maybe I am being a pessimist by saying "it just ain't going to happen"?
Hey who knows, maybe it will? All I can go on is experience? If ALL the players that matter say "it ain't going to happen...it ain't going to happen"!
Is that naive thinking on my part? Is the world finally going to change? Are we going to finally have a world where everybody does the right thing?
There are three kinds of people in this world...optomists? pessimists? and finally realists? Which one am I?

[whiteface]

I agree with you cowman on that the testing will never happen. I certainly want it to and will continue to screech at whoever can hear me willingly or unwillingly and my apologies for getting oversensitive in my feeling that I'm fighting a losing battle all by myself. I do wish you success with the berries, I have my mitts in many endeavors as well but none have had quite the rewards, as I've said before, other than financial, as the cattle. No hard feelings, I'll be sad to see you leave the industry when it's your time to move on.:-)