Waiting

[ALICIA]

Magpie- I really don't know what to say because anything I have to say sounds like a negitive coment.
But maybe with the little guy like me gone, you full time farmers just may get a break. The report in Canada says that 80% farming in Canada is part time farmers. So if 80% of us can get out the other 20% should get a good price for the food they produce.
This is the only sulution that I can see that is going to save any kind of Agriculture in Canada, I just don't matter, maybe it will be good to let go of the cows tail because the other end seem to be eating to much.

[cowman]

Well Stan Eby says the border will open soon...sort of the same line Neil Janke used to use?
I agree with rsomer, to a certain extent, that if it doesn't start to open soon, things could finally start to melt down. There are just to many darned cows up here with too many darned calves on them?
If the border hasn't opened up by this fall, or if we get a drought this summer, something will have to be done.What? The official "science" of the day says no animal born after 1997 can possibly have BSE? How about a cull of every pre-1997 cow? The pit is the cheapest and most permanent solution, perhaps? Also would get mega media attention and show the whole world that we cannot possibly have one BSE cow...according to the "science"?
This whole BSE thing isn't about food safety...never was really? It's politics, trade, and protectionism?
The USA has proven time and time again they are not free traders or even fair traders. They don't want our beef unless they can steal it, they don't want our soft wood lumber! However they do want, and need our gas and oil and electricity and various other commodities? Time to realize we can stick it to them on those commodities and forget about selling them the things they don't want?
Of course this isn't a pretty picture if you are the cattleman left holding the bag? But we need to realize very firmly that the general Canadian population really couldn't care? Why should a working Joe see his hard earned tax dollars go to support some rancher who has assets worth millions, while he struggles to put food on the table?
The time has come for the government to get real about agriculture. The way it is set up now it is a bottomless pit that will continue to consume tax dollars. If a business can't cut it without government subsidies, indefinitely, then it shouldn't exist?
There will always be someone who will raise cattle and crops. Just like there will always be people who own horses? They work for free or in fact even pay to work? It isn't good business in any sense, but people keep telling me this isn't a business anyway? So I say let them have it. Let them play cowboy or farmer if that is their desire...and let them pay for their pleasure?

[rsomer]

I think cowman has reminded us what the problem really is when he says "This whole BSE thing isn't about food safety...never was really? It's politics, trade, and protectionism?"

Who would ever have thought that when those planes hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that it would start a chain of events that would lead to the U.S. border being closed to our beef, or at least closed to our beef for this long. When we get right down to it, this is not about food safety anymore if it ever was. Anne Veneman said in June of 2003 that our beef was safe. Any food safety issues have been dealt with long ago, there never was any food safety issues with younger animals anyway. It is about Canada’s refusal to take part in the Iraq war. Canadian producers are being used as pawns by the Bush administration to turn the screws on our government and our ability to be a sovereign nation.

Even though Canada was there with the U.S. on September 11, 2001 by being the country that accepted thousands of planes that the U.S. was afraid to have in their skies, and even though we sent troops to Afghanistan to fight the war on terrorism, that wasn’t enough to be friends with the U.S.

Now that the world knows Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction and Iraq never posed any security threat to the U.S. and wasn’t even an important base for Al-Queda, now that we have seen the atrocities the Americans have committed on the Iraqi people in the streets and prisons of their own country it is easy to see our refusal to take part in an unjust war was the right one, whatever the cost.

NAFTA is preventing us from putting up an effective opposition to what is a blatantly unjust trade action by the U.S. We gave up the right to turn off the oil taps when we signed that agreement. Now it seems that we have nothing left to do but sit and wait for the U.S. to tire of punishing our nations farmers for something that was started by a handful of suicide bombers 2 ½ years ago.

The decision not to send troops to Iraq has been called the single most significant foreign policy decision by a Canadian government in the last 50 years. Until Canada builds sufficient packing plant capacity to process our beef production and for that matter any other nationally important perishable product we will remain vulnerable to these kinds of economic attacks and our ability as a nation to take independent stands on foreign policy is diminished.

It is possible that Canada cannot make independent foreign policy decisions anymore as long as we are part of NAFTA.

[magpie]

Cowman these business should not exist either, Over the last sixteen years we have seen large companies such as Bombardier (245 millions $), Pratt & Whitney (949 millions $), De Havilland (425 millions $), Air Ontario (224 millions $) and Le Groupe MIL Inc. (241 millions $) receiving almost a fifth of the 11 billions $ handed out by the Feds over that period. Only 15% of fully repayable loans have been repaid to date. I do not think these are the latest numbers either. IF we can't get help these multi million dollar companies shouldn't.

[cowman]

But Magpie, surely you understand how politics works? One hand washes the other, sort of thing?
There is a power elite in this country that takes care of its own? And sad to say, mostly based in La Belle province?
It is called the Liberal party, although it isn't exclusive? After all the Mulrooney conservatives were just as adept at taking orders from their masters?
While I can totally agree with you that these companies shouldn't exist, that doesn't mean the taxpayer should continue to throw money at a failed industry...agriculture! Instead what we need is some legislation to protect and therefore encourage our agricultural industries?
Do you think it is fair that we must compete in our own domestic market(let alone foreign markets) with American or other foreign subsidies? Do you think it is fair that we have a free trade deal with the US, and yet they don't honor it, unless it is to there advantage? Why is it, that if we have a free trade deal, you still have to pay a duty at the border? After all it was supposed to be free trade, right? Free for who? Wasn't for me and wasn't for you? Definitely was for someone though...the international pirates who took over our industries?
But you do bring up an excellent point, when you question the Bombardier type of deals! How do we stop this blatant corruption? Well maybe first of all we toss the dogs who have been aiding and abetting? And who are they?...the Liberal Party of Canada?
Now maybe Harper is a little too pro-American, but so far he isn't a proven crook! Paul Martin was the man in charge of the books and he can't weasel his way out of the fact he was part of the corruption and outrite theft of our money! A vote for him will be a vote for the continued **** of the Canadian taxpayer! A leopard does NOT change his spots!

[cowman]

Rsomer: In the past I ripped America on the Iraq war, and applauded Chretiens decision to not send troops. I was soundly thrashed as being anti-American!
I hope the Bush administration is not so petty, that they would play these games, because we never supported their silly adventure in Iraq? But I acknowledge that they might,
My own personal belief, is that the American people are bombarded with so much of this "patriotism" garbage, when they are young, that they just don't get it? And that is sad?
Americans are a real "Can Do" people! They can make things happen...they have the right attitude!
Why do they continue to get led down the garden path by every idiot who waves the flag?

[kato]

If I remember correctly, as of May 19, 2003 this business we are in was carrying on quite nicely on it's own with no subisdies or government help. At least if there was any, I sure didn't know about it! This need for assistance has only come about as a result of the BSE mess.

As for the Americans, I am glad we didn't get involved in Iraq.

I believe it's a friend's obligation to tell their neighbour that they are about to make a mistake. It's just too bad that the neighbour can't appreciate that when the dust settles and they find that they should have listened to the advice.

[magpie]

That’s right cowman the power elite of this country is in the east and until we have representation by region and not population, they will continue to gain power at the expense of the peasants or working class in this nation. Kind of reminds me of the renaissance period back in history when kings were kings, knights were knights and peasants were paying the taxes. Back in high school during the seventies, a history teacher told us that eventually communism would revert to capitalism in those countries and capitalism would go to to communism or some form of dictatorship. Never gave it much thought then but it seems we are getting that type of government elected every time an election comes around. The USSR is no more, China slowly opening up to trade and free enterprise. Here in Canada we are told by an eastern elected government what is good for us in the west. I’m beginning to give up hope on this whole political bull. No wonder our young voters 18-24 don’t give a hoot. I myself are not sure whether or not but I do cause its my right and when I loose my right to vote then I will truly know I’m living in a dictatorship driven country. I don’t know cowman what the answers are , I do know that if Quebec would have separated in the last vote, then we in the west would have had the balance of power in the so called election process. I don’t want no handout from the tax payer and by the way I pay taxes as well, I’d sooner get it from the market place. This western part of the county was built on the backs of hardworking people, pulling stumps picking roots, stones, building towns schools and growing cheap food for the people of this nation. Continually contributing to the GNP and growth of this country. If they have taxpayers funds to help out these multi-billion dollar corporations, then surely they can find funds when an industry such as ours is in financial ruin thru no fault of our own. As far as free trade goes it should be called free flow of money amongst the elite. The former government wrote the scripts on how we are supposed to operate. I thought governments role was to provide an environment under which industry and business would prosper, well they probably did only not here, and only for the multi-nationals not at the working class. Politically how much clout did we have in the west to contribute to the workings of a free trade deal that would provide a climate for ag to survive without assasistance. Dictorship at its best. YEP they want to keep us as peasants, SHUT UP PAY YOUR TAXES, we know what’s good for you.

[cowman]

We just can't win in Canada. Never could really?
The federal system is skewed to always screw the regions...thats just how it is.
On top of this we have provincial gvovernments who won't stand up for their people! Ralph Klein would be a classic example? He makes a lot of noise but won't demand any of the rights we have under the constitution? A fine example is the gun registry where ALBERTA is prosecuting Oscar Lacombe?...and then he mouths off about how gun control is such a bad idea?
The Alberta tories have a very poor track record of standing up to the feds? They make the noise while continually giving in....makes you wonder who they are really working for?
Myself, I've been a seperatist since childhood. Not a wishy-washy I might want to be a Canadian...if only Canada would change, but the full meal deal!
It has nothing to do with your average eastern Canadian, but about seperating from a greedy, corrupt power elite that preys on us all.
For me if the Conservatives get in and weaken the federal power, then that is a good thing! But only in the sense that it positions the west to eventually be able to leave. My Alberta, doesn't include Canada and it never will.

[cswilson]

Not going to dignify that rant with a response!!!!!!!