Ron DeHaven Says BSE North American Issue

[Willowcreek]

Vennaman came out today and said more cases of BSE will be found in the US. (The first truthful thing she has said in months) Then she still says that we should not allow testing by Creekstone or any others. That the Japanese are using trade barriars against us. Between USDA abd NCBA their will be no beef market left.

[rsomer]

There is no doubt that more cases of BSE will be found in the U.S. The U.S. is facing a very significant problem in that protectionists in the U.S. like R-Calf are saying keep Canadian beef out because it is not safe yet the U.S. is going need to keep consumer confidence when they find their indigenous BSE case.

I think Veneman and the USDA is right when they say no to Creekstone. Let me explain. Talks are ongoing right now between Japan and the U.S. on BSE and how trade will resume. Some form of testing is sure to be part of this and the U.S. and Canada are already committed to ramping up testing in the coming years. And if more cases of BSE are found the rate of surveillance testing will increase even faster. But these rules are being made by government not by business who do not make the rules of trade but work within the guidelines set out by government.

Look at it this way. A business sees an opportunity to sell product to a customer in another province. The customer wants the product and the business sees a way to gain an advantage over competitors and make a very good profit by meeting the customers needs. There is only one problem. To ship the product requires oversize loads. The government says they won’t issue a permit. Should business be allowed to do whatever it wants in order to make a profit?

Should we ask government to give up its rule making responsibility that governs trade to business? Be careful what you ask for. Business in this economy is not responsible. That is not to say businessmen are irresponsible but business is not responsible to the people as a whole like government is. When we don’t like the government we can collectively kick them out. Not so with business. Businesses are much like pirates who sail the high seas looking for bounty and opportunity. Businesses are not rule makers and we would not want to live in a society that allowed business to make the rules.

There is no doubt Japan’s actions are trade related. And there is also no doubt that beef under 30 months of age, lets make that 24 months to be sure, are free from BSE and no test will ever detect BSE in these animals. So why is Japan keeping out American beef and before that Canadian beef under the guise of demanding BSE tests. It is to protect their domestic producers hard hit by their own BSE crisis and the resulting loss of consumer confidence after it was realized that Japan did not block the feeding of animal protein when North American did. Japan cannot be allowed to unilaterally make the rules on trade by hiding behind the curtain of consumerism. Everyone reading these threads knows that testing young cattle will never detect BSE so what can be the reason for demanding such a thing. The reason is protectionism pure and simple.

[pandiana]

rsomer, I don't think anyone on this forum would disagree that the border closures and trade barriers are purely protectionist. However, many of us are of the mind set that we must do whatever we can to sell beef. As you have pointed out, we don't have the power to change policy so must work around them any way we can. Japan and US have isolated us as an industry. It seems to me we have no choice but to think out of the so-called box and develope and industry that is Canadian made and administered,...whatever it takes. Time is running out!

By the way, your analogy about business and rule making is a very good one and certainly makes the point.

[cakadu]

Theoretically we can kick the government out. We don't necessarily like the one that is in there now, but we don't have much chance of kicking them out entirely. The way the numbers are stacking up, the Liberals may be in for their toughest fight yet - again theoretically because people can change their minds between now and election day.

What I find most interesting in DeHaven's statement is "...Both were born and presumably infected in Canada." The second case they cannot definitively prove was infected in Canada, yet they are still singing that tune. What about the Texas cow? We will never know for sure what it had or didn't have, because thanks to the so-called SNAFU, it was destroyed.


Good way to explain about the testing issue. I like that alot.

[cakadu]

Good points about the Japanese rsomer, however, if it is totally a protectionist issue, why have they ramped up imports of Australian beef so much? I think they still want the beef but are scared, as a government, to drop a protocal that almost changed the government when they had their first BSE cases.

[rsomer]

rpkaiser: You are right the Australians have moved in to fill the void created because of the ban of U.S. beef and for that matter Canadian beef. It is interesting to note the Australians only test about 500 head a year, less than anyone. The Japanese did increase their tariff on imported beef to 50% from about 37% at approximately the same time this all started which suggests they were indeed looking to protect their industry. It will be very interesting to see what arrangement is eventually worked out in the talks between Japan and the U.S. that are predicted to be finalized sometime this summer.

pandiana: Interesting point about creating a Canadian made industry versus a North American industry. I tend to think our best hope of regaining access for our live cattle is a harmonized North American industry. It would be a fair comment to make however that the minute the going got rough the U.S. forgot all about North America in order to save their own sorry selves. When I think about how integrated we really were with the U.S., it will be very difficult to say forget it and go it alone. Going it alone would be an uphill battle now that we are carrying the baggage of our own BSE cow. We tend to be tied in with the U.S. whether we like it or not because of NAFTA and our common border. Not to overlook the fact that the U.S. is a fabulous market for our beef and because of climate, location, culture, historical trading relationships we are ideally suited to fill that market.
I admire the Australian industry and its ability to trade with partners around the world. Their historical trading relationships are different however and we would have great difficulty suddenly moving into new world markets in competition with established suppliers such as Australian and the U.S.
COOL is certainly not part and parcel of a North American beef industry but the latest I have heard on COOL is that the industry wants it to be voluntary. If the U.S. were to end up with mandatory COOL then I question where that leaves Canada in a "North American beef industry".

cakadu: You said "The second case they cannot definitively prove was infected in Canada, yet they are still singing that tune". There are so many tunes being sung that the melody has been entirely lost. Just more noise. In the end actions will speak louder.

[cowman]

The whole COOL issue is sort of a scam at the best of times. It doesn't affect sales to restaurants anyway or hamburger for that matter? And I suspect if the American housewife sees the label "Product of Canada" and tries it because it is cheaper than "product of the USA", she just might realize that hey this is a better product! I've had corn fed beef and I wasn't impressed! I believe I'd rather eat chicken.
In the 2002 drought, when every man and his dog was feeding corn, Western Feedlots continued to feed barley, because their largest steak house customer told them if they fed corn they would not buy from them!
I have also heard that a very large portion of the beef going to Japan pre-BSE was loaded right off the trucks from Alberta feedlots, slaughtered, slap on the USDA stamp and onto the boat! Maybe that is why the Japanese think American beef is superior?

[greybeard]

DeHaven is going "by the book" on this one . If you keep saying there is "no" risk and a cow turns up there may be panic in the marketplace and consumer rejection as in UK and Japan. They have to say it will happen but the risk to you as an idividual is very small.
This is what will get R-Calf in the end.

[pandiana]

rsomer, when I refer to a Canadian industry it is not that a truly integrated North American industry wouldn't be better if it really worked without the politics. My point is that, in reality, we have been pushed out of the North American integrated industry for the forseeable future and, based on our recent experience, we could and probably would be pushed out again at the whim of the big players. I agree with Cam Ostercamp on this point. I feel that we need a solution that is best for 'our' industry for both the short and long term.

Right now, we are dealing with livestock producers that are sitting on the brink. It is beginning to look like the border will stay closed to most cattle indefinately, or as long as it works for the US. As willowcreek points out, the USDA has been blocked by R-calf and who knows how long to resolve this issue. I realize that some US industries are hurting (packers and feedlots), but so far their lobby has not been heard. Even if we could predict that the border would open to bone-in beef say July or November for that matter how many producers can hang on this long. How many cattle can be fed on drought-stressed pastures? How many times can you go to the bank to buy feed for cattle that are worth less than the feed to keep them? How many off farm jobs will be required to keep going?

Obviously, there is no easy answer. But I agree that wishing the border would open has done nothing to help our situation, and in fact may have deepened our trouble. Instead of biting the bullet we have continued to fund a losing battle.

I agree that testing all animals in itself is not the solution, although I do believe it could work in our favor if we actually had a Canadian industry.

As you and others have pointed out, the first step to any solution must be to have a made in Canada packing industry that will add value to our own cattle. Producer owned would be great. We could then test or not test and let the market decide what they want.

I also feel strongly that the only strong suit that we have in negotiating fair trade is to pursue NAFTA and rethink it if necessary. Whether primary producers across the country could provide enough momentum to get the ear of our 'business oriented' government is debatable but this would appear to be our only 'legal' avenue.

Finally, it is beginning to look like we will have far too many cows in the short term to sustain this industry. I believe the government is going to have to address this problem...and soon.

[jensend]

on this one i think dehaven and veneman are trying to do some damage control in advance like greybeard says but i don't think it has anything to do with prudence. i think things are starting to get out of control in usda and they know someone's going to spill the beans. the americans are going to screw up the whole n. american industry given enough time and now it's time for us to put some distance between the two countries. rsomer can award debating points all year long if he wants but analysis of the situation is of no use at all if there's no action following and it's totally useless if the thesis is wrong and the thesis of sound science is looking shakier all the time. scientists finding evidence of prions in muscle cuts and different organs of both humans and animals is going to necessitate universal testing and all the past 'knowledge' will become foolish wishful thinking. other parts of the world have dealt with bse and maybe it's time canadians took responsibility for their own future and food supply and learned from someone other than the americans. they have little interest in dealing with bse; the control of the canadian cattle industry by a few large packing companies is the only policy justifying actions over the past year. imho.