Meeting with Cam Ostercamp

[grassfarmer]

Good to see you making progress Randy, Cam's essays certainly impressed me and contained many truths.
I'm still struggling with the realities of the way ahead. Is mandatory testing feasable? Supposing the Government could be persuaded to go for this motion how could they implement it? Presumably Cargill and Tyson would go to the courts to fight it citing "sound science" as their defence. Remember this is the same Government that couldn't get access to the Packers financial records. If they did succeed and by some miracle persuade the Packers to test why would the Packers pay 1 cent per pound more for fats than they are now?
I personally see the best opportunity for testing to be the Government getting behind a smaller company with substantial funding (they gave it to the multi-nationals afterall to attract them initially)and a guarantee of longterm protection from the cartel practices of the large packers. At least that way we would have more competition in the marketplace and a chance of moving the cattle prices upwards.
Despite these immediate problems I see great hope for a united push to improve our industries footing by following many of the things Cam Ostercamp advocates in his essays. Thanks for taking the time to represent grassroots producers!

[rusty1]

You might be interested to know that there is a movment to sue the USDA under chapter 11 of the NAFTA agreement. It states that if there is "no scientific issue (paraphrased) then the border cannot be kept closed, and that the ofending country is liable. but the ABP and CCA and govt's don't have a big enough will to do something. They havn't lost enough nor hurt enough.

[kato]

If Cargill and Tyson go to court citing sound science, then the same argument can be used regarding the closing of the border not being based on sound science.

Scientific truth is just that, plain and simple, not something to be pulled out and paraded around "only" when it's in your favour, and then disregarded when it's not.

As for the new group, GO FOR IT! It's about time our views were represented. Let's cover as many provinces as possible too. The wider the membership, the more credible.

Let me put my cynical cap on here...if we had a bunch of people down east working on the cause, we might get some political action. Let's not just be known as a Western group.

[kato]

Testing for BSE is only part of a much larger suggestion laid out by Cam Ostercamp. We ultimately need to reduce our dependency on the American comsumer for our beef. One step towards this is to test beef for BSE, and then to approach each new potential customer with a new attitude. We have a wonderful, nutritious, safe product that we know you would enjoy. IF WE MEET YOUR PROTOCOL, would you be interested in this product?

You had a question about pricing grassfarmer which I will try to answer. Testing will not change the price the packers offer for our beef imediately, but customers will. Right now we have a major lack of customers. This is not a plan to fix things overnight. This is a plan to fix things for our kids. Our industry was in trouble long before BSE and will stay that course if we simply look to opening the American border as our solution.

Right on kato, we need to make this a Canada wide thing, and real quick. Regional reps will be needed as Cam is simply a farmer like you and I and needs to keep his job. He's only been at this a few weeks and looks a bit burnt.

[cakadu]

RPK - I'm glad to hear that things are moving along with Cam - it can be a lot to lead something as challenging as this.

As producers, we need to be aware of being able to meet customers demands and still make a profit of some sort. It does us no good to meet their protocol if it ends up costing us too much to do it in the long run. Someone has to pay to allow for whatever extras may be required in going after new markets. The customer needs to be willing to pay or else it ends up coming out of someone's pocket and we know that it is usually the producers pocket.

I've always maintained that so many of the things that we as producers are being asked to do are fast becoming a social issue, hence must be paid for in order to ensure that it is done that particular way. If it means that the consumer pays, then so be it - if they want continue with safe, quality food, then maybe they need to be wiling to pay for it.

[rusty1]

I'm sure you could get Liberal running Ted HAnney to carrie he cause down east. Try it.

[rusty1]

Next meeting on June 7 at 7:00pm at Hirche Herefords in High River with Cam Ostercamp. Bring a bus load.

[rusty1]

Meeting may be a bit of an understatement!
My estimate at this point is for 500 to 800 cattle producers. New Generation Co-ops, government,NFU,media, bankers,
and on and on.
This meeting is not only about the Essay, it is about the name of this new organization of grassroots producers,
BEEF INITIATIVES GROUP. B.I.G.
Bring your ideas!!!!!!!!!!

[rsomer]

With due respect to Cam Ostercamp and the contributors to this thread there are some things about Mr. Ostercamp’s essay that need to be pointed out.

I have read the essay carefully many times and have given it considerable thought. Mr. Ostercamp’s essay is based on an unspecified assumption. That assumption is the border will not open for 7 years. I for one do not believe it will take that long to see the border open, as a result I see the essay offers desperate producers only hope but no substance or practical solutions. RpKaiser, you said bring your ideas. I hope you can accept that my ideas are different than Cam Ostercamp’s.

1. It needs to be pointed out once again that 100% testing will not sell one more animal. Our packers are running at 100% capacity and are able to market all their production at top prices. We do have a problem with a lack of sufficient packing plant capacity, not a problem with a lack of export markets. There is a good market for every animal we can get the hide off of. Cam Ostercamp correctly identifies this problem but goes on to incorrectly assume that the bigger problem is a lack of markets due to a lack of BSE testing.
We have markets for all our under 30 months of age beef if we could get them slaughtered. Canadians can consume domestically our cow slaughter if we don’t import any beef. The Canadian consumer market for our beef remains strong without 100% testing although we do remove the SRMs from every animal over 30 months. There is just not enough packing plants on this side of the border.

2. There is only one reason we have lost any of our export markets, politics and protectionism. Testing will not fix that basic problem. Japan would still resist buying our beef even if tested. However much protectionist countries like Japan want to blame the consumers for Japan's trade action, as long as Japan has a 50% tariff on beef imports the real reason is obvious. Cam is in error when he says Canada had 25% of the Japanese market before BSE, the correct number is 2.5%. Canada never had an important share of the Japanese market before our single case of BSE. There is no reason to believe we can grab market share from established competitors now that we are carrying the burden of this BSE cow, test or no test.

3. Rusty1 would point out how desperately the feedlots need the cash injections they received from government. Cam Ostercamp would have spent that money on testing labs. We would have had labs but no cattle producers. When you are swimming for a far off shore you still need to keep your head above water. Otherwise you drown.

4. Cam Ostercamp offers as a solution lessening our dependence upon the U.S. and seeking other markets instead, correctly pointing out that as much as 72% of beef is exported and 70% of that goes to the U.S. If Mr. Ostercamp checked he would see that about 70% of all Canadian exports go to the U.S. not just beef but manufactured goods, lumber, iron ore, you name it. The reason is NAFTA which provides us a market for our products but more importantly gives the U.S. preferential access to our markets. This effectively limits the ability of other potential non NAFTA customers to trade with us. These countries will not buy our beef if they cannot sell us their cars and electronics. It is not coincidence that prior to BSE 2.5% of our beef went to Japan and 2.5% of Japan’s cars came to Canada. That is how international trade works. Ever hear of balance of trade? Countries trade with countries that trade with them. NAFTA restricts our ability to accept imports from non NAFTA countries, thereby restricting our ability to sell these countries our goods such as beef. As long as we have NAFTA the U.S. and Mexico will be our major customers for beef.

5. Cam Ostercamp incorrectly suggests that if we test 100% the OIE will hasten to declare Canada BSE free. Not so. Presently no country in the world is BSE free as there has not been sufficient time since the ban on feeding ruminant protein to eliminate the possibility of a BSE cow anywhere. There are countries that are provisionally free and NAFTA is proposing a change to OIE rules that would see Canada be classified as minimal risk. Our present surveillance testing is satisfactory to monitor our BSE status and is accepted by all nations worldwide who are members of the OIE, including Japan.

I could go on. Bottom line is we do need to focus on the short term so we can survive as an industry to build the long term solutions. In order to survive in the short term we need to reopen the border to the only country in the world that offers any hope of accepting our live cattle, the U.S. If Canada insists on poking the bear with a 100% testing stick it is not going to help achieve that goal.

I for one can’t wait seven years for Mr. Ostercamp’s solution.

[gwf]

To rsomer:
Have you ever picked up the phone and talked to Cam Ostercamp? He is very easy to talk to and has never claimed to have all the answers, but he is tired of the complacency that exists among producers and those whose survival is now at risk. Would you have written, and expressed your opinion had Cam not written his essay? I have talked to Cam, on several occasions and I know he is convinced, as a great many others are, that the industry cannot continue the way things are going. You are not alone in suggesting that the solution is the opening of the US border to Canadian beef products. This is the rationale of the ABP, CCA, and the Federal and Provincial Governments, so you are in good company. What is your solution to the problem if the US border doesn’t open for another six months, a year, or two years?