Meeting with Cam Ostercamp

[kato]

Me again.. Can't make it to the meeting, but sure wish I could. Way to far away.

So, I'll stick my two cents in here, if that's OK.

These are my ideas, for what they're worth.

1. Maybe put Canadian in front of the BIG.. C-Big?

2. Actively solicit input from producers all across the country. We really need a national voice, or else we risk becoming another local group easily ignored. Ontario sounds like it's going to be a hot one in the election, and if producers from down there got on board, someone might actually listen. Anyone who is interviewed by the media should emphasise that this is a national thing.

3. Actively solicit support from grain farmers. They have a great deal to lose if the cattle industry goes down. Besides the loss of market for feed grain, there will be a lot of pasture and hayland put back into grain, which will certainly not help them. You don't have to increase acreage much to depress the prices.

4. I don't think our politicians realize just how much the (especially) western economy rides on the beef industry. Emphasize the domino effect. Call on small rural businesses all over the country to join in.

5. MAKE LOTS OF NOISE!

Good luck, hope to see it on the National.

[rsomer]

My concerns about testing... I think as an industry we have only a limited ability to influence government. Right now the industry sees three solutions to our crisis. The first is to have the border open to live cattle, and longer term to increase packing plant capacity and increase/protect markets by 100% testing. To some extent industry is viewing the threat of more packing plants and 100% testing as a means to achieve the first objective, opening the border.

I am concerned that as an industry we are squandering energy and resources pursuing 100% testing when there is not a hope in Hades that it will happen. North American testing protocols are being hammered out right now in Japan with the U.S. Canada will follow whatever comes out of those discussions, maybe we will end up testing more than is planned now but I doubt it based on the U.S. position.

Our NAFTA commitments prevent Canada from unilaterally pursuing 100% testing. We are tied in, we are harmonized with the U.S. That is not to say that is right, or that it is right that the U.S. is unreasonably blocking our young feeders from their market but that is reality. The U.S. has Canada and our beef industry on a very short lease at the moment. 100% testing is not a decision we can make on our own. Beating the bushes drumming up support amongst producers for 100% testing is a diversion from doing what would really make a difference, build more packing plants. That is something we can do within NAFTA and we all agree that it is necessary for the long term good of our industry. It is easier for the U.S. to block our live cattle than to block our beef, we need to make that change so they can’t keep beating us up.

100% testing is not a doable option that will provide a competitive advantage for our new packing plants. The USDA blocked Creekstone, the CFIA will block any Canadian plant proposing to do the same. Maybe that is BS but that is how it is. But if the governments of this country would provide financing for new packing plants, that provides the competitive edge these new plants need to survive and prosper. If government is uncomfortable providing financing, provide 100% loan guarantees for producer investors. Those are things that can be done within NAFTA and they would cause needed changes to our industry to take place. We need to concentrate on what is possible (build more packing plants). Dreaming of the impossible (100% testing) is a waste.

[rsomer]

Dreaming of the impossible 100% testing.

I don't beleive that testing is neccessary at all. I beleive that following one untruth with another,
is not the answer for society or mankind in general.
BSE is not an infectious disease!!!!
And does not deserve anywhere near the attention it has attracted.

However human beings are steeped in culture, and protocal, and follow ideas based on truth as well as lies.

The world has begun to follow an idea that BSE is a hyper infectious disease, and it is out of control.

Consumers control governments in all the free world which is becoming a larger portion of the world every day.
We are caught up in a bogus theory about an infectious disease problem and the world is eating it up, (or not eating it up) based on this theory.

We, as an exporting beef country need to deal with this issue, and my dream, which I know will take a very long time to come true, is to wipe out the infectious disease theory and replace it with the truth. That is another story.

In the mean time, rsomer. Okay lets not make this a manditory 100% thing. But why would we hold back businesses from dealing with countries steeped in culture and protocol which may save even a few forward thinking producers?

This is only a small part of what this movement of people is all about, and once again, I challenge you rsomer to come up with something new.
I hope you have started a following of people who are lobbying the government for government owned packing plants.
If you have, put my name down as a supporter and tell me where to show my shiny little bald head.

[kato]

If the government stepped in a built a bunch of plants someone down south would find a way to scream subsidy and lay the boots to us again.

Government financing would be another story. We should pursue that agressively.

I also agree that testing is unnecessary, but then again so is a closed border under the current rules. It's not necessary scientifically, but science left the house a long time ago. We gotta do what we gotta do. No one should be stopped from testing if they want to, especially if it's the only way to sell to certain customers.

Just look at the Europeans and implants. There's no science to say implants are unsafe, but you still can't sell beef in Europe that's had an implant. This scenario has been playing out for years, and looks like it will never end.

We don't want the BSE thing to turn into that.

[whiteface]

I've just got to ask, rsomer, when we put CCIA tags in and they (meaning the US) didn't did you freak out then saying "omigod, we might be violating something with the almighty US, THEY'RE not putting in a traceback system!!" or how about their extensive private health care, we in Canada just tax harder to support every runny nose and people who abuse that system. My point is, why the hell do we have to cater to exactly what the US tells us to? Last time I checked we were still a different country with a few ( maybe not many) different ways to do things and certainly we don't want to position ourselves as a country even MORE dependant on them for something even as simple as decision making...hell you've got them telling us where to sit, when to shit and please may we even be allowed to breath...#@%%#@$! them! Not only would they do the same to us and every other person on the planet (hence why they are the most terrorized country in the world with their arrogant ways of dealing with people) they in fact are doing this to us as we speak with their unfair border based on science. They can shove their science right up their ##@@$! I'm with rpkaiser, YOU give me a viable soluion rsomer, and not another fuzzy border opening prediction like the politicians keep feeding us, but a solution that WE can own as a country and take responsibility for our own problems. The US is not going to help us, they will open the border to Canadian cattle IF and ONLY when they can re-market it to Japan for a million percent markup. The hell with them or anyone stealing our cattle, starving our producers and reaping the rewards off our raw product. Now its time for us as a nation to look ahead for our own lives. They had their chance and blew it. Now I ask, forget the border, ain't gonna happen, what do you think is the solution, short and long term and what should we go to the meeting with for ideas and suggestions. I'm ready to suggest you move to the states, rsomer, you're so concerned about what they want. What about what WE want. Time to team together for CANADA and our industry. No hard feeling here rsomer, just hard questions, let's have some answers, we've spent enough time bitching.

[jensend]

thank you whiteface. i agree that it's time we assumed responsibility. we will need the american market but all this noise that testing won't guarantee we get into japan is an excuse to do nothing. not testing isn't getting us anywhere either. the us is ramping up their testing and have held us back so that they can look good to the rest of the world. we have been manipulated for long enough and we will lose again because we didn't have the balls to make a decision. i think we're all tired of these rosy predictions. it's like saying it's too dry to seed and then watching the neighbour seed his crop before the rain and you're screwed afterwards seeding cheap greenfeed. the guy who gets it done gets rewarded.

[whiteface]

I liked your comparison, jensend, saying how some guys will say its too dry to seed and then waiting until all you've got is a cheaper crop rather than taking initiative to get the best possible crop. Thanks for the support, too, I took a chance at making some enemies with my comments but I want what everyone wants, a viable market for our product and a reason to stay in business. I will lobby whoever it takes to get us what we need and hopefully encourage some of my new friends here to do the same. :-)

[kato]

Whiteface..your comments are an indication of the frustration that is building in all of us day by day.

This is the kind of emotion we need our politicians to see. I have a feeling that they feel they have thrown us a bone, and we'll curl up in the corner like the good farm dogs we are, and leave the grownups to decide the election.

(Besides a good rant does help relieve the pressure a bit. I've been know to toss one out myself from time to time.)

Speaking of farm dogs, even if we are barking up the wrong tree by demanding testing, at least we can go to bed at night knowing that we at least TRIED.

Maybe we won't get universal testing, but at the very least we need rules that do not stopping individual companies from doing it if they so wish.

Having the ability to test the cattle, and pursue new markets could make a big difference between any new plant being seen as viable or not. In the business climate as it is, the future looks tough for anyone trying to get going, even for an optomist.

rsomer, don't quit saying what you're saying. We need all sides of the argument here. It's in an environment where the debating is lively where the good ideas develop.

Maybe we can egg each other on until we come up with something absolutely brilliant.

[kato]

Hey kato. I just printed off your points that you would like to make at the Beef Initiatives Group meeting but would like to ask if you would put a name and location on this paper.
I don't think kato from (maybe) Manitoba is gonna do it.
rpkaiser@telusplanet.net
Randy Kaiser (403) 946 - 0228
Any body else have any long distance requests?

[grassfarmer]

Good comments whiteface, jensend, kato et all. I think we really have to help ourselves out of this one, we've waited long enough for our illustrious leaders (beef industry and political ones)to do something. It's a bad time to find out you are devoid of leadership! I'll post another thread about something I think we should be doing with regard to ABP/CCA.

[pandiana]

rsomer, I was interested in your comment that because we were a party to the NAFTA we would not be allowed to go to 100% testing. How do you come to understand this? I am not that familiar with the fine print but can't see how this would apply.

[pandiana]

How's the bus seating availability up there in Hardisty Purecountry.
Buses make a nice backdrop for the camera crews that will be there.