We've been chasing them since we first applied back in November. They told us since January that money was coming (to the tune of nearly $26,000!). But it was fill this extra form, call back in 3 weeks, do this, call then, jump through this hoop, that hoop, etc.
Finally we got to the point that we couldn't wait any longer and we told them so. Creditors were getting very tired of hearing that the money should be soon, and money for springwork was needed now not later. So they put us on "RUSH status".
After a week and a half of several phone calls to them per day, talking to no less than ELEVEN different people who handled our file in that time, and a lot of grief we finally had an answer. Apparently, as a side note, that many people were required because each person enters a different piece of info and no one person knows anything but their small part. The calculation as to how much money you get is done by no one, but a number pops out of thin air. Also, they get to take paid vacation time any time they feel like it!!!
And here's the answer you have all been waiting for ... how much did we get. Well that's complicated. We get $520 on our 50% interim payment, then we have to make a deposit of our own money of $330 (1/3 portion) to receive our other $520. But the final total deposit owing to our account is $996. So in the end we end up with a net CAIS payout of $44!! After all that GRIEF!! And to make matters worse, we owed AFSC $47 for life insurance on our farm loan (which they took off the interim payment). So after all that we owe them $3!!
This is EXTREMELY frustrating because we would have made some different management decisions in the last four months had we had some clue that this would happen. Never mind the fact that our loans officer discouraged us from applying for a disaster loan several months ago because this was supposed to be so much better.
But we aren't going to be the only ones in this situation. We were told that WHY we didn't get assistance was because we kept our calves last fall. Our inventory is too high, even though we are only up by 5 head in the total herd from 2002. It is a herd expansion they say, even though we all know why some cow/calf guys didn't sell in the fall. But our 2002 herd inventory was artificially low from a calving crisis due to the drought, and so was our feed inventory (which both count). And we were also told that had we sold at a loss, our income would have still been too high so we would still have received little assistance. And the income from cattle sales and the number of head sold are on separate pages of the supplementary forms, so those numbers don't even get cross-referenced. And additional costs associated with holding over calves (like extra interest incurred on loans not paid) don't even figure into the calculation. So there is no way to get a decent payout on this program for the current market crisis. The cow/calf guys get the shaft again!!
Also, a word of advice to every CAIS participant out there. Double check EVERY single number on their printout and challenge everything that looks the least bit questionable. They originally told us we were eligible for $0!!! They didn't use the updated costs for bulls off their own website. They under-valued opening calf inventories by more than half for no apparent reason. And that's only the things they were willing to change. They use year-end costs to value opening cattle inventories which automatically skews the amount of equity loss due to the market crash (that's the single biggest problem we have with this). How else are we to show what we have lost? They say we see your problem with your cash position but your cattle still have value. Well then at least represent it fairly!!
We were also told by one of the CAIS reps stories of other people with similar stories. One guy bought some cheap calves in the fall since he had extra feed and his year-end was Oct.1. Now he has too much inventory to be eligible for money, can't sell those calves now without taking a huge loss, and has no cash-flow for he and his 2 sons to do spring-work. Another lady had to sell her purebred bulls for $600 each, but since the stock wasn't sold near year-end the loss goes unnoticed by CAIS and also can't be used to devalue the rest of her stock for inventory calculations. The rep said that this program was implemented this year (ie 2003)because the drought and the crisis was supposed to be over. But instead of delaying its implementation knowing it wouldn't help, they went ahead anyway.
I would like to know how the feed-lots managed to get money under this insane program. I don't understand what they could be doing differently with their paperwork to get around these flaws. But it's obvious that something was done differently (or considered differently) for them if tey got aid.
I plan to try to get our story out to any government people, media, or any one else who will listen. There is a slim chance that with the federal election looming, maybe we will get at least a little airtime (and maybe something can be done to correct this). Although at this point I'm not going to hold my breath!!
Let us know what you think, even direct if you wish:
k-way@telusplanet.net
My final thought is this -- I'm not a religious person, but please say a prayer for all the cattle farmers out there. If you thought they needed it before, now they need it more than ever.
Finally we got to the point that we couldn't wait any longer and we told them so. Creditors were getting very tired of hearing that the money should be soon, and money for springwork was needed now not later. So they put us on "RUSH status".
After a week and a half of several phone calls to them per day, talking to no less than ELEVEN different people who handled our file in that time, and a lot of grief we finally had an answer. Apparently, as a side note, that many people were required because each person enters a different piece of info and no one person knows anything but their small part. The calculation as to how much money you get is done by no one, but a number pops out of thin air. Also, they get to take paid vacation time any time they feel like it!!!
And here's the answer you have all been waiting for ... how much did we get. Well that's complicated. We get $520 on our 50% interim payment, then we have to make a deposit of our own money of $330 (1/3 portion) to receive our other $520. But the final total deposit owing to our account is $996. So in the end we end up with a net CAIS payout of $44!! After all that GRIEF!! And to make matters worse, we owed AFSC $47 for life insurance on our farm loan (which they took off the interim payment). So after all that we owe them $3!!
This is EXTREMELY frustrating because we would have made some different management decisions in the last four months had we had some clue that this would happen. Never mind the fact that our loans officer discouraged us from applying for a disaster loan several months ago because this was supposed to be so much better.
But we aren't going to be the only ones in this situation. We were told that WHY we didn't get assistance was because we kept our calves last fall. Our inventory is too high, even though we are only up by 5 head in the total herd from 2002. It is a herd expansion they say, even though we all know why some cow/calf guys didn't sell in the fall. But our 2002 herd inventory was artificially low from a calving crisis due to the drought, and so was our feed inventory (which both count). And we were also told that had we sold at a loss, our income would have still been too high so we would still have received little assistance. And the income from cattle sales and the number of head sold are on separate pages of the supplementary forms, so those numbers don't even get cross-referenced. And additional costs associated with holding over calves (like extra interest incurred on loans not paid) don't even figure into the calculation. So there is no way to get a decent payout on this program for the current market crisis. The cow/calf guys get the shaft again!!
Also, a word of advice to every CAIS participant out there. Double check EVERY single number on their printout and challenge everything that looks the least bit questionable. They originally told us we were eligible for $0!!! They didn't use the updated costs for bulls off their own website. They under-valued opening calf inventories by more than half for no apparent reason. And that's only the things they were willing to change. They use year-end costs to value opening cattle inventories which automatically skews the amount of equity loss due to the market crash (that's the single biggest problem we have with this). How else are we to show what we have lost? They say we see your problem with your cash position but your cattle still have value. Well then at least represent it fairly!!
We were also told by one of the CAIS reps stories of other people with similar stories. One guy bought some cheap calves in the fall since he had extra feed and his year-end was Oct.1. Now he has too much inventory to be eligible for money, can't sell those calves now without taking a huge loss, and has no cash-flow for he and his 2 sons to do spring-work. Another lady had to sell her purebred bulls for $600 each, but since the stock wasn't sold near year-end the loss goes unnoticed by CAIS and also can't be used to devalue the rest of her stock for inventory calculations. The rep said that this program was implemented this year (ie 2003)because the drought and the crisis was supposed to be over. But instead of delaying its implementation knowing it wouldn't help, they went ahead anyway.
I would like to know how the feed-lots managed to get money under this insane program. I don't understand what they could be doing differently with their paperwork to get around these flaws. But it's obvious that something was done differently (or considered differently) for them if tey got aid.
I plan to try to get our story out to any government people, media, or any one else who will listen. There is a slim chance that with the federal election looming, maybe we will get at least a little airtime (and maybe something can be done to correct this). Although at this point I'm not going to hold my breath!!
Let us know what you think, even direct if you wish:
k-way@telusplanet.net
My final thought is this -- I'm not a religious person, but please say a prayer for all the cattle farmers out there. If you thought they needed it before, now they need it more than ever.
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