Young heifer

[grassfarmer]

Got an extra calf this morning from one of last years heifer calves. She was born March 15th 03 and calved today - she must have been bred around 20th August (155 days old)! She was in good order all winter and it was only about a month ago I realised she was in-calf. She will weigh around 900-950lbs and had a good 60lb calf at her side this morning,washed and fed.
I once had a heifer calf before that was bred at seven months old but at just over 5 months old how soon do we need to pull bulls?
It's strange how you get exceptional conceptions like this and then a big fat mature cow can turn up open for no apparent reason.

[rusty1]

You ask a very good question grassfarmer. I used to market calves via sattalite years ago. I I'm beeting every cattle marketer would beg you to pull you're bulls in 45 to 60 days. I can show you many leaders in the industry who do that in the large ranch situation. And it works. Anybody who you would hire to market youre calves would be able to do a much better job for you then.

[grassfarmer]

Yes I got caught out last year because I was moving my calving period later. The bulls were only out for seven weeks but because they were turned out later this heifer got bred. Still a surprisingly young heifer to be in heat.

[Willowcreek]

I always Lutalyse all heifers in the fall when I bangs them. Solves lots of surprises and problems.

[kato]

We've had the heifer surprise a few times in the past too. Sometimes they can raise them, sometimes they don't. We would adopt the calf to another cow if one came up, because this calf will make it pretty hard on it's young mother to rebreed.

Now we watch in the winter, and anything that hasn't come into heat gets a shot of Lutalyse.

Cheap insurance.

[tramper]

I had a young heifer that did the
same thing two years ago. She was
born the middle of March and the
following year she had a calf at the
end of May - small but alive and
vigorous. Last year she had a set of
twins in May and this year she was a
little bit later. She just calved a few
days ago.

[pandiana]

Just a word of caution that Estrumate or Lutalyse doesn't always work if the pregnancy is advanced (greater than 4-5months). We also just had a heifer calve, 940 lbs with a 67 lb calf. We tried to abort her in October with Estrumate and dexamethazone (recommended for advanced fetuses) but obviously didn't work. Last year we also had one that we missed. We actually put her on the CIDR's program before we realized she was pregnant. The calf still did not abort although we think it was premature when it was born a couple of months later at 40 lbs and unthrifty.

[rusty1]

Seems yaall missed my point. Have you any idea how much more you'd get for you're calves if you pulled you're bulls at 45 days? You're feedlot opperators would kiss you if you could guarantee that. Their calving problems in their feedlots escalated to record breaking numbers this past year. Givving the heifers a shot is not the answer and causes all kinds of complications and cost them dearly.

PULL THE DAM BULLS EARLY

[GrnAsMoss]

Was talking to a purebred Angus breeder who AI's, last week. They flush those cows to produce as meny eggs as possible, then breed for only 23 days. Then CULL the open cows. Obviously the price of culled cows effects this option this year and last. But, in a perfect world, shouldn't the commercial cow/calf people be breeding up a herd that conceives everytime they are bred? It shouldn't be the purebred guys only that does this. I've wasted too many hours pulling dead fetuses out of "heiferettes" once they are put on Rumensun and hot barley ration. They are a pain in my petunia.

[Willowcreek]

GrnAsMoss- That 23 day breeding period might be OK in a perfect situation. But how about the guy that runs cattle in a 10,000 acre pasture that carries 1 pair every 70-100 acres? Half the time the cows aren't even close to a bull the first time they cycle. I guess you could spend all day riding for a month and make sure each cow in heat finds a bull- but that sure puts the work into the situation, and cuts into any profit.

[cswilson]

Good point WillowCreek short tight calving seasons are great-but not if the costs outweigh the benefits. I've seen guys literally spend thousands of dollars trying to raise their conception rate 5%. There is a widow lady up here runs about 120 cows on her own and only pulls her ONE bull so she misses the real cold weather. She just sorts up her calves at home and every month or two sells a nice package of 20 clves usually hitr the ring together. Maybe that is an extreme case. Ourselves we finish everything-we just get vet to repreg any heifette type cattle before they go to lot-no troubles as of yet.

[rusty1]

ya said it softly GrnAsMoss. It's more that a pain in the you know what. There is huge dollar costs to the feedlot industry for having to give every heifer a shot to abort anything that's possibly there. This past year has been far worse than normal. Therefore the feedlot opperaters pencil in those costs and filter it down to the cow calf producer to pay.
Therefore it is in you're best interest to pull the bulls promptly.
There are some very sucessful and progressive ranchers that have been breeding for a 45 day period for years now.
IT works and don't let anyone else tell you differently.
I know that there are alot of herds out there that would have a lot of open cows the first few years. But thats because they have bred infertility into their cows.
Now I'm talking generally. There is always the exception to a quick breeding that one has to weigh in the balance.
However with the low value of cows today there is no reason to keep freeloaders around just because they look good.

[cowman]

A wise old man once told me it doesn't matter when the calf was born, but when you sell him! And quite frankly who wants to try to keep a seperate pasture for a bunch of darned old bulls? Maybe easier to pull the cows with big early heifers and keep them seperate?
Occasionally I've had those "baby mommas" in the past and it can be a real wreck or a very positive experience! Now mommas with big hfr. babes get the hook fairly early...at least the ones I might want to keep! I'm sure not into babying a bunch of darned bulls for 320 days of the year!(I've often wondered if leasing bulls for sixty days might be the way to go?)
Don't feel too sorry for that feedlot buyer...if he knows his stuff he'll be right there with a very healthy discount! I would never sell that kind...rather take my chances than let some dog steal her!

[kato]

We start calving in January. If all our cows calved in 45 days we wouldn't survive it! LOL

Heifers getting bred doesn't happen that often, but we watch for heat, and check out anything that doesn't cycle.

We don't sell anything straight off the cow, so don't worry about sticking anyone with the problem. I guess if they went straight from the pasture to the auction we would never know, but that's not an issue with us. We don't usually sell them until they are about 800 pounds, so if they haven't cycled by then, we'd know it and check her.

A strung out calving period is better than open cows this year, anyway. When cull cows go for less than three hundred dollars, you can lose a lot of equity pretty quick balanced against weaning 50 pounds less calf.

[GrnAsMoss]

Yes, when you're selling pounds this fall you'll want to breed even the cows who were bred three or four times with bell shaped teats, no udders, and poor feet, because the law of supply and demand and cyclic highs and lows are obsolete this year.
But if you have the privelige of having the buyers admire your calves in the lot when they're finished, if their death loses are low and they've gone onto feed easily and gained substantially in the lot over a short feeding period, those few groups of calves do get a premium $ and go directly to the feedlot from the pasture. Some commercial cattlemen do have a great set of uniform calves who feed out well and who don't have pregnant babies. Wouldn't you rather be the person with the reputation of raising beautiful uniform crossbred calves rather than the one who raises crappy misfits who may abort come February?
The packer knows who to go to find great calves. These fancy new bar coded tags tell him so. Are you on his list? If you can't beat him join him