Beef Initiative Group Canada-Great BIG C !

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu, You say: "Now more than ever, supplying the domestic consumer is crucial for us. As is supplying what cuts we are to the US." Unfortunately due to the Packer practises, supplying the Canadian and US markets at current prices is what has brought this industry to the brink. The returns the producer is getting are unsustainable. Understanding this would perhaps lead you to get behind this new producer group even if testing shouldn't really be an issue.

[rsomer]

Cakadu: I was struck by the wisdom in your comments and then I remembered. 100% testing is not going to happen. It is not that I am for or against 100% testing but it is not going to happen. We are absolutely positively going to be harmonized with the U.S. and there is nothing any of us is going to do about that. Given that reality, producers calling for 100% testing definately has the potential to undermine our consumers confidence in beef with no potential of ever actually happening.
Worse, Japan might take strength from Canadian producers support of 100% testing and hold tough in talks with the U.S. The U.S. won't give on their position dragging out the talks and delaying the opening of our border.
I do think there needs to be a more rational response to a positive BSE test from all our customers, domestic and foreign before North American will even consider 100% testing. In the meantime removing the SRMs does provide 100% assurance of food safety. I know that is not what most of you want to see but that is how it is.

The U.S. taking so long to open our border is just going to destroy all confidence in their and our beef. Our producers have had it up to their eyeballs and are fed up. It is understandable that producers are reaching out for solutions. Still 100% testing is not going to happen. It is not an option government will even consider.

[rsomer]

I am so glad that you have so much confidence in your consumer confidence theory rsomer. It does not sem to me that you are convincing too many on this thread however. I personally don't go for the "treat them like the dummies they are" approach, but you and all of the people who have taken that stand will obviously never budge.

Like I have said before, Japan is treating their consumers with respect and even looking to them for direction. This is a long range goal, and one that will proove the hyper infectious disease theory wrong as well.

Show me proof (experimental and theoretical) that BSE is passed through feed rsomer. This would be a good homework assignment for someone with all the statistics and the answers like yourself.

Call us splinter, and predict us dangerous, but don't call us useless.

[ALICIA]

The customer will be 100% confident when we can advertize that every bet of meat that is in the store has been tested for BSE.
Like it or not if Canada test, the states will have to follow along because they will loose sales if they do not.
ps. Just because Australia has not reported a case of BSE doesn't mean they have not found one in the bush. Don't they have just as many sheep as England and New Zealand also.

[cswilson]

I hate to rain on anybody's parade-but once these packing plants are built I assume they will be run like a business-ergo to make a profit.I can't see how they will be paying more for my finished cattle if that is the case.The packing business is brutally competive-that is the reason there are so few as of today. The only way I can see them working is if they fill some niche the big three aren't supplying. To go head to head with them I just can't see being feasable.

[cowman]

cswilson: I believe that too! However it sure would be nice if we had a couple of cow plants so we could maybe get a couple of buyers bidding on the old cows?
When the border opens the American plants will probably come calling for cows again so hopefully a cow plant would be strong enough to compete? Lets face it a lot of these "packing schemes" just aren't sustainable if the border opens? Maybe if people were committed to selling their cattle to them at less than market value, but somehow that doesn't strike me as being very good business?
It seems the industry is moving towards vertical integration? Where the producer has to own the cattle all the way up the food chain. So that the cattle producer needs to be a feeder, packer, marketer, and retailer! Most people have enough to do just raising the darned animals and growing the feed? They don't really have the time or the effort to take on the rest...and if you aren't hands on in any business things can often go to hell in a handbasket fairly fast?
I still believe this industry could be made accountable up the chain by some decent legislation, instead of the stuff we have now that favors the meat oligarchy?

[rsomer]

I think producers totally underestimate their market power when it comes to packing plants. I think back to the prairie grain farmer in the 20’s and 30’s when the cooperative grain farmers took on the established companies and started the Pool elevators and the UGG. For fifty years, two generations, these grain companies competed with the big players like Cargill and Louis Dreyfus. And they would still be competitive today except producers forgot the reason these coops were established in first place.

At some point Canadian beef producers will see that there is absolutely no future in continuing to sell their product to the Cargill and Tyson Foods and start packing plants they own. Farmers have all the market power if they simply refuse to sell to Cargill and Tyson. For me, even if I got $50 a head less selling to a packing plant I owned it would be still be a great investment. I would have vertically integrated my farm up the supply chain. I would have effectively hedged myself from slaughter price fluctuations and my end price would now be determined by the boxed beef price which is much more stable. I would have guaranteed myself a market for my fat steers which is a problem I am very worried about right now. As a small producer I may not be able to market my calves direct to any packer but have to take live auction prices which really stink.

I see that selling my cattle to Cargill and Tyson has no future at all. Even if BSE ends tomorrow it is my best interest to vertically integrate up the supply chain. There are some small outfits selling their own production out of the back of a freezer which may work but there are a host of advantages to being in an alliance of other producers who join together and form their own cooperatives. The producer owned packing plants would have market opportunities to create brands that really would be competitive. Branded beef offers huge potential for profitability but I would still be happy being part of a producer owned plant if I just smoothed out my prices and had a guaranteed home for my fat cattle.

So I am not worried that Cargill will pay someone else $50 a head more and that makes Cargill more competitive. If that someone accepts that $50 from Cargill they are just selling out their future a bit at a time. A packing plant I owned would always be more competitive when it comes to getting my cattle because I just would not sell them anywhere else. Maybe 50 years from now my grandchildren will forget why the producer owned packing plant was started and it will disappear like the Pool elevators. But in the meantime I think producers will remember 2003-2004 and why producer owned packing plants were established and support them even if the border opened tomorrow.

[cswilson]

You know what would be 'VERY INTERESTING' is if each regular poster would give a brief profile of their operation just to see where some of these views are coming from. I'll go first 150-200 cows-calve later and retain ownership to slaughter on all production. Place cattle on feed at various times some as calves,backgrounded or off grass. Sell 100-150 bred heifers yearly-A.I. sired hfrs aied back. Sell some forage raised bulls also. Back to Rsomer post-if you are going to build something on the premise that people will sell for $50 dollars less you are bound for trouble-remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions-it was exactly that attitude that sunk the SWP-they became an uncompetive top heavy dinasaur and we all know what happened to the dinosaurs.

[kato]

One hundred and eighty cows. Usually sell calves from Jan to April as short keeps, but am feeding to finish this year.

Background between one and two hundred a year. Bought light in the fall and sold as shortkeeps in spring. Except this year when they will be fed to finish. (hopefully later in the year when the border is open.. LOL)

Only crop is greenfeed oats, hay and grazing corn. Everything else in pasture.

[rsomer]

Much the same as you guys, calved 130 head will be calving 150 head next year, retain ownership of calves until March but this year they will be sold as finished steers and heifers. Grow all our feed needs and in addition crop 1100 acres Wheat, barley, canola and anything else that might make a buck. I have a number of off farm interests but make my living from the farm. Off farm interests include ag consulting and this year I am proud to be joining the Canadian Forces Reserves as an officer.

[cswilson]

Ohhh I forgot-I ranch 110 miles NE of LLoyminister-Meadow Lake, Sask.-where the pavement ends and the west begins.LOL

[cowman]

Cowman: Down to 96 calves this spring. Have pushed up to close to 180 cows at one time. Rent out my grain land. Grow all my own hay...don't do silage.
Have other business interests, mostly oil and gas related. That is what really pays the bills.
Been here for over 100 years...great granfather bought this land for a song...paid dearly for it in blood, sweat and tears! Dead children...hard times!
Looking forward to taking it easy since the boy came home and I gave it all to him.
Love the land, love the flora and fauna(starting to mean more and more to me everyday!)! Putting in my time and walking the mile until I go home! Becoming a philosopher? in my dottage!!!
Hey good for you rsomer, that reserve thing is just so cool!

[redcountry]

farm on prince edward island .
cow-calf 200 cows, calve 80 spring mar-june 120 fall sept -nov.
sold 75 since may 20 still holding the fall calves to finish.
grow corn for chopped silage, all grass silage bought by acre standing from potatoe farmers, olso barley bought from potatoe farmers.
finish on a mix of grass silage corn silage barley and potatoe culls
member of Atlantic Beef Producers Co-op with a new plant to open sept or oct this year (equipment is being installed now) we are not going to kill cows so still have that problem to deal with!

[Incognito]

Cowman:

"flora and fauna"

You been to Costa Rica?

[cowman]

Icognito: No I haven't. Wanted to go this past winter but had the darned cows to feed and calve and my son was busy as a bee in the oil patch.
What can I say? My momma was a school teacher and occasionally fancy words pop out! But maybe flora and fauna sound better than saying the darned coyotes and weeds? LOL