G8 Summit

[whiteface]

Grassfarmer you must live in an area that can't grow a decent grain crop. And what do you care if I can make money on grain fed beef off the farm, go ahead and sell grass fed, your choice, I'm pro choice. No one who has ever written me a decent sized cheque for quality beef wanted grass fed, maybe its different where grain don't grow, costs you too much to import your feed. So grow grass, feed beef, be fruitful, I'm all for different strokes for different folks. Hope you're getting a little sunshine through the clouds at your place! :-)

[grassfarmer]

Further proof of an absense of a case whiteface, resorting to the cowman line that your land is too good to grow grass on. Go on tear it up with the big John Deere, expensive diesel, deplete the organic matter to get a handful of grain to feed to livestock in an intensive operation. That's the right way - the clever way to feed a herbivore - if you want to be in debt to the Multi-nationals that control all the links in that production chain.

[whiteface]

I wasn't aware that I had to "prove" my case to you grassfarmer, thanks for letting me know, and incidentally it makes sense that I think similarly to cowman regarding the price of land, we live probably within 50 miles of one another. Sounds to me with your extreme defensiveness that as I said above, I haven't missed the nail by much, I'm willing to bet you can't grow grain where you live as you refer to my ability to grow "a handful" of it, must be all they grow where you live, I'm really sorry about your costs of transportation to and from the "bigger" markets. In any event, I do not grow one kernal of grain here but certainly appeciate the value of the grain growers. As well, since it also appears to me that not only do you need to be right, you also seem to need the last word, which you can have also from me if that's your purpose in life. I do not have any point to prove, I simply state my opinion as I see it, if you agree, great, that's how alliances are formed, if you do not, great also, that's how diversification is formed. If you need to be right, you can be right in your own little word, doesn't mean I have to agree with you and I don't based on my customer reactions and the fact that I need to make the most money possible on this high-rent land...that I absolutly relate to with cowman, I could own several peoples stock trailers with the amount we pay just in property tax every year. As far as you needing the last word, you have it, not being disrespectful, but if you choose to reply to my comment here, I will not be replying back. Life's too short to try and "prove a point" as you put it with someone who simply does not share your opinion. Thanks for comeing out. :-)

[pandiana]

I appreciate your point that we must extend our grazing season, especially in this area. I am intrigued but I have don't have a lot of confidence that there is a cheaper way of feeding other than forage harvested. From your profile, it would seem you farm close to me. My experience has been that during a typical season we might get five months of grazing. A good year might see pasture remain open until from May to October. In the 'old' pre-drought days we frequently experienced 18-20 inches of snow over very mediocre grass in October and November. It has been my experience that the quality of the grass during fall is inferior and you work hard to keep condition on cattle in preparation for winter. Without supplementing, I am not sure how your keep condition.

I am rather interested in swath grazing but again, with the amount of snowfall that we can get I am not sure you can count on it. Also, I remember how much work it was in my keener more energetic days when we strip grazed. Its not much fun moving fence every day even though the cattle loved it. But then again, that's grain!

[cswilson]

You ever notice people can be like the cows they raise-me I'm Angus I can get hot and on the peck-some Hereford guys just shut their eyes and get more stubborn LOL.

[kato]

You've got to do what your land dictates. If we all raised the same kind of cattle there would be no such thing as a "premium".

Our pasture season lasts from the end of May to the end of October on the average. We can extend grazing for the cows until later with corn, but as of today it's too wet to plant. I guess it'll be green feed oats for us this year.

Our policy is to keep the extra grass for the cows, and pen up the calves and pump it to them. We feed screening pellets and then introduce barley to them as they get going.

We don't have the land base needed to put steers out on grass, it's maxed out on the cow herd.

Just like that old debate over when to calve, it's whatever suits your setup. A young finished animal, whether grass or barley is bound to produce better beef than a two year old.

Key words..young...finished.

BTW.. does this have anything to do with the G8? LOL

[grassfarmer]

Pandiana, Yes it certainly is a challenge growing enough grass in a drought. That said I have grazed cows without supplementation into mid November in the last two years. Getting calves weaned by the end of September allows the cows to gain condition which wouldn't be possible if they were still milking. If we had more moisture and more growth last year we would have had enough grass to last to Christmas - despite the snow as the cows will happily graze through it if there is enough reward there. Again any grass not utilised in the fall can be grazed from mid April onwards once the snow goes albeit with some supplementation.
I don't profess to know this Rimbey country better than you butI feel these methods will be the most profitable way ahead for me and are entirely possible in this area given average growing conditions. (Grazing June-December without feed supplements and mid April to late May with some feed added.)
I won't bother replying to whiteface as he/she won't read this anyway but wasn't that a hard thread to follow? Seems like they were replying to a different thread to mine everytime. Strange.

[grassfarmer]

So much depends on the land we have, wherever it is. Whether is was given to us or bought with nonagricultural money, no matter.
Now we go to work with ideas, based on experience and learning. Some learn to graze the grass til its gone. Some learn to work with the ground they have, the grass, the moisture, and sometimes even the type of cows.
I will move again to another part of this province someday and at that time will introduce all that I have learned to this new piece of ground. Grazing can be extended almost throughout the year based on stocking rates and grass management.I've moved electric fence in as much as 1 foot of snow for my cattle to graze later season grown pasture in December. Tested better than most hay.I just love to have cows turned into a field of carry over grass in April when some new shutes of grass are starting to add to the value, and slowly adjust the ration to grass once again. It all dependes on our choices. None of us are really making enough money from this business to argue about it.

As far as grass fed, I don't know. I've never given grass fed beef a fair sampling, but sure do love my beef fed a finishing ration of around 70% barley. Our chefs and customers in our meat shops seem to like it too. That is not to say that a meat shop next door might outsell us with their grass finished product. Healthier???? I don't know about that one. We sure get the boys up the food chain stirred when we claim healthier with our Natural, no hormone, no antibiotic story. One of the holdbacks with grass finished is the fact that it is seasonal,,,, or frozen here in Alberta. Some folks are finishing on grass hay, but I think it would be a bit different product.
Take your beef, and your story to the consumer, there is lots of room out there for fresh new choices.

[ALICIA]

I've been reading your comments on grass feed versis grain feed.
All I have to do is look in my own herd at my yearling. If I don't feed them grain they are at least 200 to 300 pounds lighter in the spring.
Strait grass and hay just doesn't cut it if you want your calfs to grow after weining and not only that try giving your calves creep will on there mothers.
The bottom line is grain is easer to digest. With less energy to digest the more meat they put on in the form of pounds, this means earlier to market, this means more money in your pocket.
Feeding grain if the animal is over 2 years old is a waist of time if you are looking for growth. If you are looking to get your cow breed back early this is good but for any other reason beside fattening for flavour its a waist of your money.

I'm not a know it all, I just have had cattle all my life. And I know with out a douht that my calve are far better if they get grain when they are in the growth stage of life and the best genetics in the world can't make up the difference of no grain in there diet. Try it your self and then you will see.

[greybeard]

Randy,you say "take your story to the consumer,there is lots of room for everone".
That scares me a bit. We are just recovering from all the years of declining consumption while the consumer picked the leanest looking steak on the meat counter only to be disapointed with poor eating product.
Nothing compares with a home-raised ,slightly over-finished steak.
I'm sure grass-fed can be done real well,but...If it's all presented as healthy,I shudder to think of what some of the stuff will carry for finnish.
One mans opinion.

[pandiana]

Your point is well taken, grassfarmer, regarding 'growing season' vs 'grazing season'. In order to take full advantage of banked grass we would require considerably more land base.

The trick is to balance. You require a large enough herd to justify your overhead expense. You need enough land to allow for periods of stress such as drought, early snow,hail etc.. (Alberta Ag suggested at one time you should carry over at lease 1/3 of your feed each year).

We are definately short of land but find it hard to justify additional bank payments to fund a marginal enterprise.

[pandiana]

By everyone, I mean everyone who has the personal desire to stay away from the mainstream and find their own way.
Those "everyone's" are few and far between, and yes there is lots of room for them.