Purebred breeders

[15444]

cswilson:

I have to agree with whiteface on this one all the way. Cheque is a favourite of the breeder I purchased my first Hereford from. He liked every cow that he got off of that bull. Cheque is much like Nick the Butler in that he is a real cow producer. And yes, that is some very valuable semen you have there. Unfortunately, I am pretty bulked up on semen right now, having purchased the remaining units left of Kilmorlie Steel 359S last fall in the Duralta Dispersal, 23 units in all, as well as many other bulls in the tank. I'll definately keep it in my memory bank and will check to see if you want to sell it in the future after I finish off some of the near-empty canes in my tank in the next year or so.

whiteface:

You'll have to let me know what size of cattle you are breeding for. The cow is about 1400-1450 lbs and about a frame 5.5? (have never measured her), so she is not super big but quite functional for our climate and conditions (NW Ontario). She had her first calf (heifer) in spring of 2002 and raised the best calf out of all the first-timers. I switched her over to fall breeding in 2002 and she raised one monster of a heifer calf this past winter. She is currently bred to Kilmorlie Baron 211X to calve about mid-August. Both Sportsman and Baron are very athletic bulls so the combination will be interesting. As far as flushing, I am for the idea, but would have to find out more info as the whole process would be new to me.

[cswilson]

Ohh Western Breeders used to market him at one time and thats how I got ahold of it. I tend to speculate abit on some bulls that I think are better than the company does lol.

[ALICIA]

Whiteface & 15444 - 45th herd reference issue page 108 Last bull I bought when he was 2 days old, picked him up at 6 months and sent him to bull test station. KOO top half of page.
47th annual herd reference issue page 112 bottom of page. This is my herd sire now koo Y131 radar 2L. His dam I bought as a yearling and she made the disticton list last year.

Whiteface- Do you know Mr Harrison, & George. Am I warm?
15444-Cow's are Stick, Much More, Tradewind,McGyver, Wrangler, GHC Miss Broadview, Fortress, Steel12P, Rebel, a couple of 3yr old from FB Banner Victor 63M, GHC Keyman,Optimum, and last year I bought Wilgor 31L Carla 29N at Bill's Sale.

[15444]

Whiteface & 15444 - 45th herd reference issue page 108 Last bull I bought when he was 2 days old, picked him up at 6 months and sent him to bull test station. KOO top half of page.
47th annual herd reference issue page 112 bottom of page. This is my herd sire now koo Y131 radar 2L. His dam I bought as a yearling and she made the disticton list last year.

Whiteface- Do you know Mr Harrison, & George. Am I warm?
15444-Cow's are Stick, Much More, Tradewind,McGyver, Wrangler, GHC Miss Broadview, Fortress, Steel12P, Rebel, a couple of 3yr old from FB Banner Victor 63M, GHC Keyman,Optimum, and last year I bought Wilgor 31L Carla 29N at Bill's Sale.

Alicia:

Don't have the herd reference issues on me, but I will take a gander at those pages in the near future.

Used Tradewind, Optimum as well as a McGyver son in the past.

Have a few units of Tradewind left, although not sure when he will fit my program. Had one purebred heifer off of him in '96 and that was enough for me. That calf took just about every first place ribbon and banner at our local Hereford show with Doug Allison judging in '96, but she had super wacky heat cycles as a yearling, was a poor one to catch with AI and lived up to the common notion that real big cows bring home real small calves. Quickly changed my breeding philosophies to focus more on the commercial man's needs and less on the ring, which, as you can guess, has made me pay dearly for in the ring. Oh well.

Main herdsire is a Optimum son out of a Louada Voyaguer 4W cow. My pride and joy for sure. Shares the same little problem as Tradewind in putting a little too much masculinity in the females for me, but his heifers don't have the same reproductive flaws as Tradewind.

Used a horned son of McGyver through AI from Dorrances in SK. Way too extreme for my needs. Big calves and big frames. Make good stocker steers, but none to impressed.

Had wanted to use alot of the bulls that you have in your cowherd, but as with all things, it is hard to sample everything over the years. I know Stick and Rebel were highly used bulls in Southern Ontario. Nick the Butler, Race and Trustmark were the foundation of most herds in Northern Ontario.

[15444]

Alicia:

Don't have the herd reference issues on me, but I will take a gander at those pages in the near future.

Used Tradewind, Optimum as well as a McGyver son in the past.

Have a few units of Tradewind left, although not sure when he will fit my program. Had one purebred heifer off of him in '96 and that was enough for me. That calf took just about every first place ribbon and banner at our local Hereford show with Doug Allison judging in '96, but she had super wacky heat cycles as a yearling, was a poor one to catch with AI and lived up to the common notion that real big cows bring home real small calves. Quickly changed my breeding philosophies to focus more on the commercial man's needs and less on the ring, which, as you can guess, has made me pay dearly for in the ring. Oh well.

Main herdsire is a Optimum son out of a Louada Voyaguer 4W cow. My pride and joy for sure. Shares the same little problem as Tradewind in putting a little too much masculinity in the females for me, but his heifers don't have the same reproductive flaws as Tradewind.

Used a horned son of McGyver through AI from Dorrances in SK. Way too extreme for my needs. Big calves and big frames. Make good stocker steers, but none to impressed.

Had wanted to use alot of the bulls that you have in your cowherd, but as with all things, it is hard to sample everything over the years. I know Stick and Rebel were highly used bulls in Southern Ontario. Nick the Butler, Race and Trustmark were the foundation of most herds in Northern Ontario.

[whiteface]

I'm at about the same place as 15444, cswilson, certanly don't dump the semen out and he is bull I will seriously consider in the future, probably for a flush or two as I don't A.I., my program is built mainly on the best quality walking bulls I can buy or raise and then new genetics frequently enter in the form of embryos, whether mine or purchased. Breeding is done for this year, but more transplant to be done next year...
My website address is www.dynamiteacres.com now I'm out of the bag! 15444, I'll send you an email as soon as I'm off the forum, let me know if it makes it to you and we'll talk more. Alicia, I travel a lot and study a lot and have met a lot or people but I've also had two kids and as my dear friend Alain Decorby said, "womens lives change focus when they have children and no matter how good they were at their job before their kids they'll have lost some of that ability afterward." (referring to his wife, a very prominet breeder of the 70's), "if Karen has anymore kids, we might as well just plant her in the garden..." A sense of humor that I can really appreciate, but no Alicia, my child fogged memory does not recognize the names you threw at me, sorry, another hint, for me to know who you are? After visiting my website, you'll all know pretty much everything there is to know about me. Thanks for the new friendships! :-)

[ALICIA]

15444- The only problem is big calves but all myn have been long and tall. Both the bull and heifers have been feminine in my herd so I steered the bulls. One of my best cows is one I bought, this year she gave me my first heifer after 5 straight bulls. 9F's EPD's are 5.2 42.2 67.4 7.8 tot mat 28.9 The heifer is a keeper.

White face I plan to visit your web sight. I'f you been reading other postings that I have made you will see that I also have switched from AI to going back to using good bulls. But I have no regrets in using AI because I would not have the cow base that I do if I had not.

[whiteface]

Thanks for visiting the website, Alicia, leave me and email if you'd like, we'll visit more then! :-)

[ALICIA]

Whiteface: I seem to have trouble finding web sight. I thought you may be regestered with CHA but couldn't find you their eather. Will try again.
I don't have a web, been plaining to start one, even had one ruffed out but that is as far as it got. Like most things in time.

[ALICIA]

got you web. If 169H, 127G and 27N is missing, they are in Ontario. Also I thought I better not tell you about 302M.

[whiteface]

Thanks for the feedback, Alicia. Excellent picks by the way, now I need to meet you, you have a very very good eye. Found the best in my herd and it's a fairly sizeable site!

[InAHurry]

A question for the commercial cattlemen/women, if I may.

Do you have a preference for private treaty or public auction (production sales) when selecting a bull? What do you perceive or value as the ups &/or downs of each?

[cswilson]

The best method I've seen for selling bulls is a Kit Pharo's where the floor price is stated and u raise your buyers number to bid the price keeps increasing by increments till only one number is left up. Next I'd say private treaty works best-then followed by live auction with no ringworms oops i mean ringmen. There is far too much B.S, goin' on at bull sales for my liking. Myself if I get dicked with I hang them with the bull-you do that once and they move on to another victim. The only live auction we buy at is at Bow Slope run by the regular feeder cattle auctioneers-those guys are honest and above board. One thing that is starting to develop is private treaty planned matings-where commercial guys will say You breed these cows to this bull and we'll buy all the half brothers. I feel the 'flavor of the month' purebred deal is on its way out finally.

[whiteface]

For myself personally, selling one of my purebred bulls at public auction I feel is a good way to help decide how I should price them at home. Cswilson is absolutly right in that there is some (maybe quite a bit) of screwing around at an auction and definatly this makes some potential buyers uncomfortable. Many of my buyers have come to me privatley because they simply are more comfortable dealing quietly and in a less pressured environment. Even with that said, as you asked, inahurry, the down side I find is that sometimes, while the buyers are not feeling any "pressure" to buy a bull, they will simply sit on the fence to long making up their mind and the deal doesn't end up going through, because they aren't required to make a decision. Also, at an auction, some buyers feel they got their bull at "market price" because of course someone made the bid before him, bull would have to be worth at least that much...right? Someone else thought so. I guess where I'm going with this conversation is that I think it is human nature to want what we think someone else wants and the whole thing with "trendy" pedigrees or bull sales or shows or anything is just indicative of how any of us deals with our own level confidence. I try to combat my own insecurities at an auction by telling myself that the animal I'm interested in is worth x number of dollars period, based on how I feel I can market the progeny and if I get bid up, it's okay because I know how high I'm willing to go and that's it, if I end up paying "full price" well, it's more advertizing. People like to see "high prices" especially if it's not them who has to write the check. Just makes everyone excited to see big bucks. Most of my cattle are sold privately with a few going to purebred auction each year to "keep me honest" and see how accurate my "home pricing" is. Auction frequently gives me opportunity to meet new buyers as well and use the catchy "high seller" title at so and so a sale to attract possibly more and new buyers as well. Auction offers huge possibilties for advertizing, private sales offer huge opportunities for one-on-one time with your favorite (repeat) customers that really appreciate getting an animal that is usually taylor made to suit them. This is how I like to approach people the best. Sorry this blurb is so long and passionate, I guess that is a big part of who I am. Thanks for reading! :-)

[whiteface]

Oh! And thanks for asking, too, I'm pretty passionate about talking about my whitefaces!