Purebred breeders

[Bruce14]

How many of you folks will be topping up the old semen tank with US genetics next year?

I realize that Canada is a small market for many Americans but I will definitley be buying bulls and semen sourced from Canadian herds.

[whiteface]

I "screwed up" big time purchasing a bull from Texas last March, border closed to south 2 months after that. As it turns out, now that the border is closed both ways, to some people here in Canada I'm the "hero" having imported one of the last American bulls for who knows how long this will go on...to other breeders, they feel as you do Bruce, they want little or nothing to do with American genetics. My stance is that Canadian genetics are better regardless of whether or not the border is open and my sourcing the bull from the states was for genetic diversification although the quality isn't quite there. Turns out, I didn't use him especially heavy and with the continued heat arising from who's going to accept whos good into the varying countries, I consider as well, more and more about the genetics I'm using, the cars I'm driving, the software I'm buying, where does it come from and do we really need to be supporting countries that don't support us? I have some doubts for sure.

[ALICIA]

I'm sorry but I can't support you on this one. I'd say their is not one hereford in my herd that doesn't have a least a drop of American blood in their veins, and I guess I must admite that I got a lot of cousins in the US also. Plus I guess I'm kind of happy to say that I've sold breeding stock to the states. But my Hereford's got a lot of Alberta blood also and from the way you's talk about us farmer here in the East, I'm thinking may be I shouldn't be buying from you's out West eather.
The only way to make a go of thing so I'm told is to sell to the highest bider and I'd doesn't matter where he lives, as long as his check isn't made of rubber.

[Bruce14]

Alicia you do what you think you have to do.

I will be supporting Canada and Canadian breeders no matter what province they live in, however I won't be supporting the ones who continue to bring up American genetics. Some of my customers have told me they will be using the same principles.

We each make our own choices.

[cswilson]

Hmmmm I don't think them cows could pick their parents now could they lol. The vast majority of American ranchers want the border open too-we just hear the lunatic fringe R-Calf view.

[whiteface]

Sorry, alicia, wasn't trying to get personal about the whole American bloodline thing. I do feel that in Canada and in Alberta we do have some of the best bloodlines to offer in the world, don't hate me for that, I guess like you, I'm just proud of my breed, my province, my country and my friends and maybe just talk a little too much about how great my "little circle" is. Again, nothing personal, and incidentally, I have sold several animals to the US and Ontario and am very appreciative of both areas support of my program, definatly I do not take them for granted! I hear your frusteration on us "Westerners" I've been sneerly called one myself by more people in the East than I care to count, it's like y'all hate us out there. For that I am truly sorry, it feels like a bittersweet relationship I have with some of my Ontario customers and friends sometimes, divisions don't help us only hurt us...hopefully there are things we can do to bridge the gap. Just curious...The "National" is being held at the "Royal" this year, are you going? With a show string? What area of Ontario do you farm? I plan to go this summer/fall for some shows/sales, I wouldn't mind meeting you, see your cowherd. There will be a handful of cattle at the Royal this year with my prefix on them, I'll be out to share in the support of the buyers that beleive in our program, maybe visit with you then? Hope you're going. Hope you're not too pissed off at me, sorry.

[15444]

Considering I just visited Eastern Ontario for the Beef-A-Rama Junior Hereford show last weekend. I know where Alicia is coming from when he mentions the strong connections that Southern Ontario producers have with American breeders. Having talked to just about every adult at that show, I came to the conclusion that Southern Ontario Hereford breeders are very passionate at getting the border open. And that is very understandable considering that they have traditionally taken part in many American shows including Louisville and Denver.

Should we condem them for their decision to use American genetics and maintain good ties with our southern neighbours? No. They have every right to try and persuade and befriend America as much as they want. BUT, if any purebred or commercial Canadian producer came to stand against a Canadian movement to try and move away from our reliance on the Americans to add value to our product and provide a single export market for consumption, then, they should be shunned by the entire agricultural sector.

[ALICIA]

I'm just stating my thought on what people in the Agr. industry thinks of one another from East to West from North to South.
We all want the boarder open. And until this BSE happend I for one never even gave it a thought about our so called dependence on the States.
I just went back and forth across the boarder with out giving it a thought. Oh I had to stop at the boarder and give a reason for going across but that just took a few minutes and that was that.
I sold my steers and culls to the sale barn and I know that they went to Kansis, just like most of the stockers in the East, but I really didn't care, I was happy with the money and that was that till next year. Well I know better now and I can tell you if it doesn't get better soon I for one will not keep throwing money away on feeding cows just to give them away to feed a country.
The Agr. Paper ran a story just last week saying that its Barbaqu season and the beef is going up $1.00 per pound. Whats that.
You's all jump on farmer because he is telling you the way it is, well I must admight thats the way I see it also. When it first happened a English farmer right from England kind of tryed to break it to us gently, but he really didn't have to heart to tell it the way it is.
We are going to have to buy and sell amoungst our selves. Get those plants up and running and try to be selfsifition as best we can. The goverment says that I'm a part time farmer, so I can only clam a little over $8000.00 of my expences, so from know on when I hit that magic number I give cash for the rest of my expences so that the next farmer doesn't have to clam it as inclome.
We do what we can to help each other and I believe that this just may be one way to help my fellow farmer and I hope he does the same for me.
Just another little thought.

[Bruce14]

Point taken 15444. We all have our interests.

If the adults you spoke with at that show would sit in a gathering of commercial producers and say they want the border reopened so they can get back down to Denver or Louisville to show I would like to be there.

As purebred breeders we are a darn small piece of the entire beef business and much smaller than we wish to think.

Here is a list of R-calf affiliate members from their web-site. I wonder how many fellow purebred breeders in the US are members of some these groups, especially the South Texas Hereford Association.

Arizona
Cochise-Graham Cattle Growers Association
Navajo County Cattlemen's Association
California
Calaveras County Cattlemen's Association
Fall River and Big Valley Cattleman’s Association
Kern County Cattlemen's Association, Inc.
Madera County Cattlemen's Association
Merced-Mariposa Cattlemen's Association
Modoc County Cattlemen's Association

Colorado
Southern Colorado Livestock Association
Eagle County Cattlemen's Association
Fremont Cattlemen's Association
Holy Cross Cattlemen's Association
Kit Carson County Cattlemen's Association
Pueblo County Stockmen's Association

Iowa
Iowa Livestock Auction Markets Association
Pocahontas County Cattlemen’s Association

Kansas
Kansas Cattlemen's Association

Missouri
Missouri Stockgrower's Association

Minnesota
Fillmore County Cattlemen's Association
Glacial Ridge Cattleman's Association
Houston County Cattlemen's Association

Montana
Montana Cattlemen's Association
North Central Montana Stockgrowers Association
Southeastern Montana Livestock Association
Beartooth Stock Association
Bitterroot Stockgrowers Association
Crazy Mountain Stockgrowers Association
Park County Stockgrowers Association

Nebraska
Nebraska Livestock Marketing Association

Nevada
Nevada Live Stock Association

New Mexico
New Mexico Cattle Growers Association
New Mexico Public Lands Council

North Dakota
North Dakota Stockmen's Association
Burleigh County Farm Bureau
Dakota Resource Council

Oregon
Oregon Livestock Producers Association
Baker County Livestock Association
Grant County Stockgrowers Association
Malheur County Cattlemen’s Association
Union County Cattlemen’s Association

South Dakota
South Dakota Stockgrowers Association

Texas
Independent Cattlemen's Assoc. of Texas
South Texas Hereford Association

Washington
Washington Cattlemen's Association

Wisconsin
Northern Wisconsin Beef Producers Association

Wyoming
Wyoming Stock Growers Association

[ALICIA]

I wonder if Star Lake is a member. I hear that at this years sale they averaged over 9 grand. I guess they wouldn't want the boarder open. I know they have soom Canadian Hereford genetic's in their cow herd.

[whiteface]

Alicia, why don't you come right out and ask Montie? I'd be really curious too to see what his perfectly political answer is. I like Montie as much as anyone but now it makes all the sense in the world to me why you defended American cattle, Star Lake has a strangle hold on much of Ontario...and why, I'm not sure, they've assembled a lot of cows from Western Canada and now sell them to you for a huge markup. Again, I'm not running the program but look around a bit a their cowherd. Isn't that kinda what's happening here to our beef? We're sending it down in boxes and the Americans are selling it back to us through the fact that we're STILL taking their imports and we don't have the ability to eat our way out of this, they do. Anyway, not trying to pinch the bee in your bonnet with my involving the great Star Lake in my analogy but you do LIVE IN CANADA, ALICIA, please be on our team.

[15444]

Yes, I often wonder what side of the fence the likes of Star Lake, TRM and some of the other boys are on...would make for some interesting discussions at Agribition and the Royal.

[whiteface]

I have in fact approached some of the "big outfits" that I'll keep nameless until Alicia replies ( don't want to offend anyone here that "admires" someone down there) the answer I got to the sixty four thousand dollar question: (how do you feel about the Canadian Cattle shut out) everytime, it was, "well, I'd sure like to see the border open but it's got to be a two-way street." Several go on (nicely and politically of course) to express very strong opinions on us keeping out their colored tongued and anaplasmosis cattle and figured the border should be open both ways on "sound science." Are you guys reading between the lines like I did? I sure don't dislike American breeders, I'm very good friends and (was) trading partners with many of them, we still do quite a bit of embryo trade with the States since embryos are still allowed to move around but the mounting tension is definatly undercurrant with some conversations I've had. The Iraq war came up quite a bit last spring in conversations with American breeders. Many of them demanding to know if I felt the same way as Jean Cretien in supporting this war. I feel it's had a big impact on whether or not they care to support us now. Cswilson, you do a lot of dealings in the States, are you getting some of these impressions? Anyway, as I stated above, if you're wondering, come right out and ask them. I did, and found that they were just as passionate about trade as us, but it would have tobe a "two-way street."

[pandiana]

Its a two way street alright-six lanes one way and a dirt road the other dependening on who stands to make any money.

[cswilson]

Whiteface most of my people I deal with are in Wyoming and they think the whole thing is a load of political crap-this R-Calf has them just as p.o.ed as we are they realize the 'unsafe beef' message R-Calf spreads is gonna blow up in their face.I just know its gonna be hard to get bulls into Wyoming again though even if border opens-the state vets can be super ignorant when they want to be. Pretty much wiped out my breeding bull sales-as I sent them all stateside before.