Nobody Needs Your Cattle

[GodLovesTheUSA]

I really do not want to get into this. And so I will keep the emotional content down. Listen to the comments from Lee Gunderson. This guy knows what he is talking about.
While I have real sympathy for your situation, I do not think that you Canadians have a grasp of the reality of the situation. Gunderson excluded.

The fact is we Americans do not need your cattle. We are not short of beef.

Have you ever heard of supply and demand? There is no demand for Canadian beef from the USA. Sorry.
It’s true. If we needed your beef it would be a different story.

You keep blaming it all on President Bush. He is simply a politician who responds to the voting pressure of the United States population.

You try to blame it on your leaders. It’s not really their fault. What can they do? Scream and Yell? What good is it going to do? WE DO NOT NEED YOUR BEEF. GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS.

Gunderson hit the nail on the head. We do need your oil, gas, electricity and water. And sometimes your lumber.

Shut off the supply of resources and you have our attention. That is because there is a demand in the United States for these necessities.

Is this ever going to happen? NO!!
We own your oil and gas wells. The governments of your country make a lot of money from selling resources to us. The government makes nothing from beef. But beef producers vote.

I can tell you the Iraqis know how to disrupt exports of resources. I do not think you Canadians have the guts. It’s easier to blame your leaders.

Enough said. You Canadians think that you can initiate testing and do this and do that and it will make a difference. If you build more packing plants, then that will save the day. Maybe for awhile. But what would really help you, is if the United States had a demand for your beef. Unfortunately we do not need it.

Tie your beef and lumber exports with resources. That is your only long term hope.

[whiteface]

And deep down, we know that you are absolutly right. We also know that the only reason you would ever want our beef is to re-sell it to Japan or any other foreign market for that matter for a profit. Fair enough. Your country will open its border to Canadian beef only when and if you manage to convince Japan or any one else to take it from you first. I lobby us to get there before you. You don't want that market bad enough. We do. We'll give them what they want. You're all still trying to figure out where the hell most of your cattle are anyway with no traceback, heck you couldn't even find all them "Canadian BSE infected herdmates" so instead just shoot, shovel an shutup about Texas cows with mad cow diseases, don't worry, we all know that too. But then, you don't need a traceback because you'll get that whole country of origin label thing going and then you can be a sealed container with your beef. No imports, no exports, and we'll all love you just as much as your Gods do. We will find our way out of this mess, we won't have to tie beef in with our lumber and we won't even have to shut of the energy, yes we know we're making money off your country from it. But we're also not so wrapped up in a flag that we can't see beyond our borders and we will give the consumer what they want beit gas or beef and we will still be one of the least terrorized countries in the world because even with our crisis', we will find a way out and also ways to deal with people that are not always fair or reasonable and certainly we won't be arrogant about it, simply looking after ourselves as best we can. Good thing you have us for oil and gas cause you sure need it, I hate being a beef farmer right now but I'd hate even more watching the sky every night for another plane flying in the wrong direction. My advice is that while you may feel smug with some aspects of your life there are many others in which you may just wish one day you had dealt with your situation just a little different. You are absolutly right in that your country does not "need" our beef right now, and you are also abosolutly right in that there is nothing we can do to "force" you into it. Perhaps also, though, I'm absolutly right in that your country just better learn to deal with people better than being ridiculous, unfair, bullyish, and arrogant or before long Japan won't be the only ones doing it back to you. God better love America, very quickly, no one else is. Thanks for your input.

[jensend]

ted - check out say's law. it will profoundly deepen your understanding of economics.

[Cedar]

Sorry, I'm not Ted, but anyway....who is Ted? and what in the world is "say's law"????

[Cedar]

GodLovesTheUSA: (Geez, there's a good joke in itself!!!!!)

"The fact is we Americans do not need your cattle. We are not short of beef. "
So, why are your cattle prices sky high? Are you trying to tell us there is no shortage down there???

"There is no demand for Canadian beef from the USA."
Just keep up with the "shoot, shovel, and shutup" mentality, along with the COOL objective and lack of traceback...and that could change!!! :-)

"If we needed your beef it would be a different story."
Your definition of "need" would be...what???....the ability to buy cheap like borscht from us and resell to the Japs or whoever for a major markup???

"You keep blaming it all on President Bush. He is simply a politician who responds to the voting pressure of the United States population."
So...what are you saying here???? The majority of the U.S. population are so greedy, selfish, rude, rotten and warmongering type of people that they would deliberately work towards destroying a food producing industry in a neighbouring country....just for the hell of it??? What are we??? Civilized human beings or a bunch of goddamned wolves out in the bush doing the eat or be eaten thing to survive???? Not my idea of a decent life!!! Almost makes me wonder if my kids are maybe getting a good preparation for their future by watching all these God-awful movies and playing all these war type computer games! Really makes one wonder what civilization is coming to...back to the dark ages apparently! (The Roman Empire eventually fell too.)
And...don't forget....even if you don't need our beef now...maybe some day you...or your kids or grandkids...will!!!

"You try to blame it on your leaders. It’s not really their fault."

Sure it is!!!! If they were capable of negotiating better trade deals, we wouldn't have this problem now, would we?

"What can they do? Scream and Yell? What good is it going to do? WE DO NOT NEED YOUR BEEF. GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS."
Or, if they had the guts and the brains, they would "shut off the taps".

"I can tell you the Iraqis know how to disrupt exports of resources. I do not think you Canadians have the guts. It’s easier to blame your leaders."
So...you are saying we should start blowing things up and beheading people....hmmm...ya...that sure makes a lot of sense!!...especially over something that involves nothing more important than money!!!! Oh ya, and...if you wanna know about these Canuck's guts....just check out the WWII history...or, alternatively...try pushing us beyond the brink....any people with nothing to lose ....!!!!

"Enough said. You Canadians think that you can initiate testing and do this and do that and it will make a difference. If you build more packing plants, then that will save the day. Maybe for awhile. But what would really help you, is if the United States had a demand for your beef. Unfortunately we do not need it."
Of course testing will make a difference...you moron! ...and so will packing plants, for obvious reasons...for those of us who can see past the almighty U.S.! This sounds like a ploy to demean the importance of these actions in the world market! Sorry...you're dreamin'! Obviously we already have a "leg up" on you guys as we have trace back in place already and are willing to deal on the world market in a fair, honest, and open way. Like the guy at the World Meat Conference in Winnipeg recently stated: (not a direct quote) Canada has the best food safety program in the world...why not capitalize on that???....why wait for the U.S. to "catch up"?????????????? Besides, I'm sure it is apparent to the rest of the world that, since we have a trace back system in place with ear tags in all animals, and you do not, that it is entirely conceivable (though not proven of course) that the Washington state case could have actually been a native U.S. BSE case, covered up by using one of our tags!!!!! The simple fact that we are being open and honest by supplying this service, and you are not, puts into question your integrity on the world market! I mean...come one...the U.S. is probably the richest country in the world...and cannot get a traceback system in place.........why????????????????????? If I had my way, all our animals that get shipped down to you guys would not have a CAN id tag in place (but to other countries...fine) ...too much possibility for misuse! (putting the blame elsewhere)

"Tie your beef and lumber exports with resources. That is your only long term hope."
If our only hope were the U.S., then this would be true. Aside from this, I find this statement rather puzzling, as it sounds like good advice! Again, this is something that only our politicians can do! Especially if we get more hydro dams up and running, which is apparently highly likely, then we would have lots of electricity to export...but I wonder what's holding up that process????...perhaps our politicians have to try and predict future bullying tactics from those to whom we would sell this power, and that could put the whole process in jeopardy????

[rusty1]

You try to blame it on your leaders. It’s not really their fault."

Sure it is!!!! If they were capable of negotiating better trade deals, we wouldn't have this problem now, would we?

You Americans keep you're word only when there is money in it for you. NAFTA clearly says (so it's law) that if there is no science then you can't keep the border closed. You can thank the Canadian for not having the balls to take you to cort for breaking the law you pened out.
Further to "needing cattle". The only reason you import our beef (which by the way is currently at record levels in the box) is so you can rais the value of your low grade beef with our premium beef all the while sticking it to youre consumer.
Don't forget the chickens always come home to roost.

[rookie]

So what satisfaction does an American get buy posting such an arrogant post on this web site. My theory is deep pscycological recognition and self validation that they are someone important because they are U.S. residents ( which in there eyes is perhaps better than everyone else ? ).

Now that I have been told by this American that I should get it through my head that "they don't need our beef" I have only one new opinion today... I don't need to say anything nice about my neighbours anymore as I get set to travel abroad for vacation. Yes... that means more childish comments ( on my part now ) .

So , "godlovestheusa" , I will respond to your post by asking you if you are actually able to tell what kind of political damage you have caused by being what I see as arrogant.

The answer unfortunately is probably no. The really sad part is you definitely can't tell. God would be embarrassed you live in the U.S.A.

And for all we know , your neighbours down the street or road probably laugh at you too...

[grassfarmer]

I think the last time this childish little person popped up on Agriville we discovered that if no-one replied to him he went away pretty soon - perhaps worth trying again as we have all more important things to address that the rants of a five year old.

[jensend]

never trust people who know what god thinks because invariably god thinks what they want him (her) to.

[cswilson]

If he doesn't smarten up were gonna withdraw our hockey players from Tampa Bay then we'll see. Eh! Eh!

[rsomer]

cswilson: good comment, a chuckle or two is always needed.

I wouldn’t mind discussing this with GLTUSA. Compared to previous posts last year the tone used here is reasonable and I would appreciate the opportunity for discussion.

GLTUSA suggests tying our oil and gas resources to lumber and cattle. We see that solution too. The USA would be quick to point out that NAFTA prevents us from doing that. There is supposed to be a North American marketplace and goods and services are to flow freely between Canada, U.S.A and Mexico. Although we occasionally hear your people talking about a North American beef industry sometimes it seems like the U.S. forgets that.

From Canada we wonder how long the U.S. can block imports of our beef and cattle saying it is unsafe yet expect the U.S. consumer to keep buying U.S. beef after the U.S. finds its indigenous BSE positive cow. Anne Veneman has made it clear the U.S. expects to find BSE again, there is more than one case I am sure. I think that is an issue the U.S. is missing. Any comments?

GLTUSA, what role is Iraq playing in our BSE crisis. Are the U.S. people still behind their President when it comes to Iraq? Has opinions changed as a result of the torture of the prisoners? Do Americans still believe the attack on Iraq was justified because of weapons of mass destruction or a connection to 911. I know there was a lot of disappointment in the U.S. that Canada did not participate in Iraq. It that still the mood or has it changed? From this side of the border, we see our troops in Afghanistan fighting the war on terror and wonder why the Americans are so POd at us. How do you see the U.S. election going? I would appreciate hearing your view.

[whiteface]

Well said rsomer, with your usual cool head and straight facts. Wish there were more people in the world like you. So we're waiting...
GLTUSA, can't wait to see what your cleaver return is for that. For a country that has all the answers, seems we haven't heard much of anything.

[whiteface]

Good luck with answers to any questions from this moron folks. I tend to agree with grassfarmer, beyond the well known point that the USA does not need our beef, this asshole is better left to wander off to his little church with the rest of his retarted freinds.

[whiteface]

Good thing I misspelled retarded, theat would have been too good for this fellow anyway.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

I know you folks are hurting right now and are real sensitive. I do not mean to be hurtful or disrespectful when I say nobody wants you cattle. I should have been more sensitive.

It’s sort of like this. You folks have lots of barley, enough to meet your own needs and some more. You are even exporting a little barley to Japan.

However here in the States we have had the border shut off to corn exports to Canada. The corn producers are really hurting. We desperately need to export our corn. A few of you Canadians know the trouble we are in, but many do not.
You have your own problems. To say you do not care about the corn exporter’s problems is not to be hurtful and to say that Canadians do not need our corn is not to be mean spirited. It’s just true. You do not need our corn. The same goes for your beef. We have enough cattle to do. Sure we could take some Canadian cattle and never know the difference. But your problems simply are not discussed here. We do not mean to be hurtful or uncaring. If I did not care I would not take the time to do this.

You folks are giving your leaders a rough time because you are desperate. I'm just saying that it’s not necessarily your leaders fault. Why do you not support them in this difficult time?
The real issue is that there is not a hot demand for beef in a country that usually meets its needs.

You would like to blame President Martin and President Bush. I am just saying that President Bush is responding to his voters needs. He is not out to hurt your country. He has his own problems to deal with.

I am saying that you are trying to sell into a market where there is little demand for your beef. Most American consumers are not aware of any quality advantage that Canadian Beef may have. Canadian Back Bacon is a different matter.

I feel that it may clarify the matter if you realize that selling your beef to us is a big deal to you, but, without being uncaring, its no big deal to us one way or another. When a lobby group stops your beef from coming across the border, no one really pays any attention. Now if we needed the beef that would be another matter. Please do not be hurt if I try to point out that we do not need your beef. I can not win. Just by saying that you are hurt instead of just realizing that you are producing a product that there is little need for in the USA right now.

I see a number of ambitious back stabbing people who feel that they can use this situation to start a new lobby group or undermine the present leadership in your lobby groups.

You continue to hope that NAFTA will save your butts and force your beef into this county. And really it should. I feel that NAFTA has been good for all of us.

And it is a North American market. What has hurt the Canadians is that such a large % of your cattle are exported, while in the States a much smaller amount is exported. So we are not hurt as much by BSE unless domestic consumption declines.

You folks are destroyed if you can not export.

I don’t know guys, it looks rough for you.

I am saying that you need to tie oil and gas exports with beef somehow. There are miles of unprotected pipeline, oil facilities, power transmission lines etc on your lands.

You might have to use these to get your message across. If you do not do it soon it may be too late.

To think that you are going to form lobby groups and put up another website and have that change the situation is credulous.

We need oil, gas, power and water.
The price of these things is going through the roof while your industry goes down the tubes. Don’t worry we can supply all of our beef needs and yours too. But we are short of resources.

I was trying to be helpful. When I say you just don’t get it. I would talk to my own sons the same way. If they need to wake up the WAKE UP. Things are getting real desperate. How many of you can wait till fall, and then the price of calves might be cheaper than ever. How is the feed supply up there? That will help you hold on. There have been a number of droughts here and you do not see a lot of feed lying around.

Good Luck in your endeavors. We are praying for you. I just do not have the time to contribute to your forums.

I wish that I could be more helpful. I am politically involved and I have one son in Iraq.
I have spoken to my governor about this. I think he cares but it is just not a priority to him.

Sometime a person has to wonder if the work he is doing is wanted. People have to consider their priorities. Does someone want your production enough to pay the cost of producing it and providing a profit. Or should you be doing something else? There is a strong demand for your natural resources, and the people working in that industry are making a good living. Can you afford to keep producing a product that is already in plentiful supply in the market you are selling into? Do you think that you will sell into that market at a profit? Ever? Ask your self these questions. I am a firm believer in free enterprise and free trade. I wish you the best. Sorry I could not have been any more help.
Ted.