Interesting Little Article

[15444]

Maybe the US and Japan are not so far off from resolving their problems even partially?

http://www.asahi.com/english/world/TKY200407020166.html

[kato]

My browser wanted to install "language packs", so I cut & pasted it.

DEAL IN WORKS: BSE talks focus on `young' U.S. beef
The Asahi Shimbun
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Japan and the United States agreed Wednesday to work out terms for a resumption of U.S. beef exports to Japan, but only the meat of young cattle, sources said.

The tentative agreement was reached during a second round of working-level talks in Colorado aimed at getting Japan to partially lift a ban on U.S. beef imports that was imposed in December following a case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in the United States. Talks began in May.

Specifics of Wednesday's deal will be discussed at a third round of working-level meetings to be held in Japan from July 21.

Meat from relatively young cows is less likely to have abnormal prions, the infectious protein blamed for the brain-wasting disease.

Japanese officials acknowledged it is not always possible to detect BSE in young cattle, even if every animal is tested. Such testing was one of its original conditions for resuming imports.

The meeting comprised experts on mad cow disease as well as government officials.

Still, officials could not agree on how young the cattle should be when they are slaughtered for export to Japan or whether they should be exempt from all-out BSE testing, sources said.

An August meeting of bureau directors-general is planned to finalize conditions for resuming imports. Japan's Food Safety Commission must approve the deal.

In Wednesday's meeting, the U.S. side said slaughterhouses exist in the United States that process only young cattle. They suggested that Japan-bound beef come only from such facilities, and that the animals' ages can be confirmed by records from the ranches.

They also proposed that meat for export to Japan should come from slaughterhouses that routinely remove risky body parts where prions accumulate, regardless of the animal's age-as is done in Japan.U.S. officials said the government could give a seal of approval to such facilities.

Japanese participants in the meeting seemed agreeable to the proposals, sources said.(IHT/Asahi: July 2,2004) (07/02)

This sounds like a bit of a hint and a warmup for the Japanese consumer.

Now, what are the odds of them being able to identify animals with records from ranches, when those fellows don't want to ID their calves?

MMM.....

We all know somewhere that young and old cattle are already segregated, and risk materials are removed, and there IS a traceback in place don't we?

MMM......

[kato]

BTW... good hunting, 15444.

An excellent sleuth, you are.

[kato]

Here's another one.

Beef News
Japan said to have backed off 100 percent BSE testing demand at trade meeting

by Eric Hanson on 7/2/04 for Meatingplace.com


For the first time, Japan admitted during trade talks with the United States the difficulty of detecting BSE in young cattle and acknowledged that blanket screenings for the disease have limitations, the Kyoto News Service reported.

Japanese representatives met this week with their U.S. counterparts in Fort Collins, Colo., for the second of three discussions on the stalled beef trade between the two countries resulting from the discovery of BSE in Washington state in December.

Up to now, Japan insisted that all American cattle destined for slaughter be tested for BSE before they would agree to resume trade.

The three-day talks included visits to a slaughter facility, feed lot and feed mill designed to show the Japanese members how the United States responded to the discovery of a BSE-positive cow in the country.

"Our tours of a slaughter facility, feed lot and feed mill were important opportunities for the Japanese members of the working group to witness the implementation of U.S. BSE safeguards, our rigorous enforcement of these safeguards and the compliance by industry," Peter Fernandez, associate administrator of the Agriculture Department's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, said in a statement.

The U.S. working team also discussed the inconclusive tests from USDA's surveillance program.

In late July a final meeting will be held in Tokyo, where the group will try to produce a technical report that will give the two governments a road map of how and when beef trade could resume.

[rusty1]

If Japan opens to the US how can they keep Canada out!

[whiteface]

It would sound hopeful rusty but I still say they've done a pretty decent job this far at keeping us out and we still need to work our butts off to pack and sell our meat ourselves over the long term. Short term, maybe this years calves will see some American bidding. We still need to press severly to our governments that the States needent be the only ones working out trade deals with other countries. We're not chopped liver here, we've got the goods to be highly competitive on an export level. Let's do it!

[BWC]

Your right on he money whiteface. The producer has to get control of our industry back. Ther are older guys in their 70's and 80's in my neck of the woods that say the only beef that leaves this country had better be in a box. It seem like July2/04 has taken some ugly twists in the big game. But we can't back off on pressuring government and policy makers to expand packing capacity, and opening up new export markets. I've said it before that Japan isn't the only country in the world that wants beef. Leat them and the Americans play. Can't back of now.

[BWC]

You got er BWC, following around like good little puppies behind the big American dog has gotten us nowhere.
Time for some policy change to let loose some Canadian Huskies.

The little bit of beef that Canada has to offer in exports will feed so few in Asia that there should be no fear of us. Why keep talking harmonization? What the hell is it going to accomplish besides an industry controlled by our American neihbors. They will only treat us fairly when they decide, and will sit back and use the freedom comic routine when Rcalf and groups like that do their dirty work. Easy to blame the Rcalf group and have USDA made out as hero's. The truth is, things could be different and they choose not.

If this deal is made with the Japanese, good for America, but it will not deter my deter mination to have Canada step out on it's own in search of export markets beyond what the USA allows.

[rsomer]

Yes, the talks between the U.S. and Japan sound hopeful. There is no doubt trade in beef will resume between Japan and the U.S. The question is when. Japan elects their upper house July 11. The BSE trade talks are to conclude July 22 with an announcement early in August. At this point it appears obvious that the USDA rule on importing our live cattle will depend upon the terms of any eventual agreement between Japan and the U.S. Speller has said look for the border to open mid August. This would seem to be a good fit but it is a very tight fit before the U.S. goes into election mode. I don’t think there is much opposition to our live cattle going south if the U.S. is selling beef to Japan. In fact, contrary to GLTUSA, I believe the U.S. needs our live cattle if they are exporting beef. The U.S. remains the worlds largest importer of beef.

[whiteface]

I still want our Country to learn from the events of the last year that we have a quality product that deserves to stand on its own, not just when the Americans feel like using us. If we have some American bidding with our calves this fall, great, you all know already it won't do a damn for cull cows, Japan ain't taking them from the States for sure without tests. Don't anyone breathe a sigh of relief for one minute, we're still Americas mistress and have done very little in the way of making our own deals with other countries for export. This fight definatly does not stop if and when the States chooses to steal our live product. We need to pursue more killing capacity and more competition for our beef. How exactly do they plan to convince Japan with no traceback and now two "false positives." Did they stage these to "prove" that they shouldn't be doing these tests because of the false positive occurrance or to try and "prove" quickly while Japan was visiting that they don't have any bugs. I will reiterate an article I read a year ago from a scientist who said, "I'm more concerned if they don't find more cases of BSE...that would suggest to me that the testing isn't working." I didn't print this article, sorry guys, but it shocked me a little and remains ingrained in my memory how he went on to say that as a scientist, if you know and expect a test to be working, it will find the problems that it is supposed to be detecting, if it doesn't a scientist generally seriously questions whether or not it works, human error or otherwise. I bring this up only because I'm frankly questioning at this point the frequency of all the positives of these tests. Didn't we wonder back when our cow was found if it was American intervention? We haven't found one since. Why? Wasn't it odd that on the eve of our cattle going south that they found a "Canadian" case? Couldn't find any more Canadian cases after that. Two "false positives show up back to back while the Japaneese are here. And why aren't they pointing fingers at us this time? How long do you suppose it is that we hear of BSE agian? False positives, anything? I say never. They'll manage to find a way to pressure Japan to take young beef and we'll never deal with BSE again. Still won't get us a home for our cull cows guys. We're a long way from a decent solution.

[whiteface]

Where the heck is our negotiating team?
Is the only group working for our harmonized market the USDA? Have we had any movement on the part of CFIA to open our border to Japan for tested Japanese product? What is it that we are negotiating?

Some of the biggest players in our feedlot industry are quoted as saying "The packing plants are doing absolutely nothing wrong. They're operating under a normal cicumstance. They're helping us out with killing as many days as they can," says Ed Miller (hiway21 feeders) and Arno Doerksen.

If this is normal circumstance, why 70 cents for fats. Maybe Ed is getting more. Who is to know. The price is always an average, and has no reason to be 70 cents. What is going on in these people's heads. It will never cease to amaze me how these folks will remain the top dogs in the industry when this is all said and done. They will go about demanding types of cattle, stealing anything different, and builing little empire's based on someone else's loss. Scoffing at those who had any idea that we could build an industry where everyone,including the Canadian based American packers, could profit. Proud of the new found position they have jetisoned themselves into by making statements like the one quoted above.
We are not in the position we are in because of grassroots people trying to make a difference. Threats about reamining status quo for fear of making things worse make me sick. Things are worse! Worse than anyone could have imagined. And most of the reason lies with people who feel their future is tied to obedience to the American Packer run USDA.

I really hope that this thread, and all the others I have taken part in is read by this band of fools, the packers and the USDA. LOL. I wish I could be on the black list along with Mark Purdey, Cam Ostercamp, and others. I will survive in this industry, and will never lay quiet. I hope Ed Miller and Arno Doerksen sleep well at night. This is not about the ABP, or the CCA, or any other group. It is about individuals with power, who have chosen a self serving route, that will eventually destroy the small rancher, and the family farm.

Thanks for this opportunity to rant.

[kato]

You are very welcome! I love a good rant.

[BWC]

I certainly appreciate everybodys views on this. This whole turn of events this week are making me more nervous than ever. Those who wish to sail our boat back into the waters of status quo will end up killing the Canadian cattle industry The following is a list of points that are really causing me serious brain cramps, sure would like to know eveyone elses view.

a)Our border has been closed for 14 monthes to the USA. So far our industry leaders and gov't have no real solution other than an open border. No real plan B. Why are they so freaking inflexible on this subject, or are they blinded by the bling- bling of the USA and big business?

b) The chain of events this week, have really got me thinking something is really rotten, how about you?
1) 2 suspect cows discvered in the USA, just prior to their negotiations with Japan.
2) Apparentley there is some movement on the Japanese side to 100% testing . Bang false positive #1 is announced. That sure helps drive the point home, that the USA is doing every thing possible to alleviate the worries of the Japanese.
3) The japanese people now get to use their consumers as a sounding board on the testing issue, in their upcoming elections.
4) OH so quietly yesterday afternoon false positive #2 is announced. At close of trading markets and just as the Japanese delegation is on their way out of the USA.
5) Why are samples from other countries sent to the UK for final verification, but this confirmation can be done by the Americans themselves? If the lab in the UK is the world authority on the tseting game why not be good sports and send them some samples? Control issue?
6) Meanwhile .. back at the ranch the good Canadian rancher sits in wait for the border to open , like a good apathetic citizen should in our country,
and hears the story that we must not tug on Supermans cape. What is wrong with this picture?
7) There's more where that came from and how long do we sit quietly on the sidelines and wait for the coach to throw us a little playing time?

Surely it's time for a diffrent proactive approach. WE ALL have to get involved to help make a difference. Feedback please.

[kato]

a) Our "leaders" are afraid to make the U.S. angry at us. They say things will get "worse". Worse for WHO is the big question. Those in power have not felt the brunt of this fiasco yet. We in rural Canada, (and I don't just mean cattle producers, I mean small towns and businesses too) are the ones taking the hit. It's a lot like other Canadian political problems, they aren't 'real' until they affect someone in power.

b)Yes, something stinks. The bad part is that I don't know if the USDA is aware that they aren't making anything better with all of their well timed events. They just keep giving the conspiracy theorists more ammunition.

They seem just as bent on losing credibility as R-Calf is on losing consumer confidence. From where we are standing, it's almost unbelievable. Kind of like watching a train wreck.

If they want to retain credibility, then for heaven's sake send the sample to the UK! Even if they are sure it's negative, by not getting an unbiased opinion, they are losing a chance to prove themselves to the international community.

You would think smart beaurocrats, knowing there is an election coming which could mean new bosses would try and put themselves in a better position to keep their jobs.

As for back on the ranch, it's time to quit waiting for someone to save us. We've got to keep up the fight to save ourselves.

We've done the rallies, we've done the letters, we've contacted politicians and media.

We've got to keep on doing it...over and over and over again until someone listens.

[whiteface]

BWC your feedback from me is I sure like having a motivated, positive, detective-like, forward thinking person like you on our team. Welcome aboard once again. We so need more people like you and I feel seriously a revolution is comeing, where the boys "above us" listen or we're throwing them out, period. No possible way we're going to lay down and die with more and more people realizing just how badly we're being controlled and manipulated. I'm fit to be tied over all the same things you just mentioned concerning the "schedule of events" that have taken place with USDA, BWC and I think having more and more people aware of all information available as kato said, the balance of power starts to shift back to us. I applaud BIG C, I applaud Manitoba for already meeting their testing quota for the year, I applaud all of us supporting each other and working tirelessly, detecting the bullshit, writing letters, using our voice, travelling to get the word out, standing together for the good of our industry, I even appreciated reading somewhere here rsomer, that you feel as positive as the rest of us in looking for alternative for our industry, with or without the border opening. Thanks for the support, we need your ability to find the facts and help us do exactly what we're capable, within the law or maybe not. That's my plan BWC, keeping it up, we're being heard.