Interesting Little Article

[BWC]

Thanks for the positive replies ... maybe I have'nt gone nuts afterall. You are absolutely right about not giving up. We have to keep pushing until somebody listens. I know I have to look in the mirror pretty hard before citicizing those who have given their efforts in the last 14 monthes, but man their inlexible approaches are insane.
I know that the ABP and CCA have elections as well as other producer groups in SK and MB. If these folk don't start listening to our points of view I know that my name could end up on a ballot, more folks gotta do it...

[15444]

Exactly BWC, we need cow/calf guys in the top positions that aren't blinded by border-minded thoughts like Jahnke and Eby as well as others. Do they rely on off farm income and are just hobby people? Would help explain why they aren't screaming and hollering at the politicians, rather then going to the media and saying, "Yeah, the border hasn't opened yet, maybe on ________, 20___. And if not then, then the Americans will definately open it on ________,20___."

[cakadu]

BWC, you are on the right track when you say that if you don't see things improve, then your name might go on a ballot. It's high time that we started seeing more involvement from "new blood" people in these organizations that just don't seem to be moving things ahead on behalf of the actual producers themselves.

I know full well that too often it is the smaller producer that can't afford the labor while he/she is gone to meetings etc. and that is why we often end up with the "bigger fish" running things because they can afford hired help. I guess what we have to ask ourselves now is how long can we not afford to get involved.

The only way to hope to see change is to get involved.

It's quite disturbing to see that politically in many rural ridings, it's not rural people that won in the election. How much of a voice is that going to give agriculture in Ottawa?

It's only by becoming involved and having a diversity of opinions out there that we will see real change happen.

[blackjack]

... today on the radio the Alberta government opens up a new lab for testing ... didn't catch if it was a scientist but the person said we had our own false positives with the new quick test... only after going through the gold test the results come back negative... the states are just playing now with the testing and making it a farce to discredit anyone else that test for real... just my opinion...

[blackjack]

... today on the radio the Alberta government opens up a new lab for testing ... didn't catch if it was a scientist but the person said we had our own false positives with the new quick test... only after going through the gold test the results come back negative... the states are just playing now with the testing and making it a farce to discredit anyone else that test for real... just my opinion...

[CMR]

I new on this or any forum for that matter. I have been to 2 of the BIG C meetings and helped organize an informative meeting with some other producers in my area, with the consent of Cam. We did this because alot of producers in our area needed to know more of what is, and is not happening. The response was great from the c/calf producers but not so great from some of the feedlot people who think the only answer is the US. I agree it would really help if the border would open before the calf run, but either way we need to push forward with all the ideas of BIG C. BWC, I think what you are saying is so true about your name being on a balot. I too, can't afford hired help to do the work if I was gone but if producers like you and I dont get involved there will not be anything to stay home for! rpkaiser, I applaud you and the rest of you on this forum for keeping me informed, rp you and I know each other (not too well) and I know your will, keep it up. I see nobody answered my question abouy NCA , maybe it is because I'm new, no matter just asked because I think a new plant is great but feel that the majority of producers should work together on one or maybe two plants, but I dont think we need a dozen little plants with producers competeing against producer because the "big dogs" will get eat us up. What do people think on this matter?

[CMR]

Personally, I have a rather cold veiw of all of these new packing plant ideas. As I said, it may be harsh, but I like the idea of any new infrastructure even though most will be broke in a few years. Someone will move in and buy these plants at 20 cents on the dollar, and find a way to make them work once the policy changes that are coming take place. Canada is in for a new era in marketing. This BSE mess will stay in our minds and hearts for years to come. We will never forget the way that Cargil and Tyson have treated us while we struggled. Producer owned packers will evolve into viable alternatives to multinational pirates.

I will throw my support behind one or maybe a series of checkoff funded packing facilities, partly because I am personally not independently wealthy, and partly because that is the position of most grassroots producers. We can ,however, create a financialy sound alternative through checkoff dollars.
I beleive that this first plant must be built in Saskatchewan, as the dynamics of politics in Alberta, and the arrogance of certain big nonagricultural funded feedlot operations will be hard to overcome. This plant will need to be as large or larger than the two mega plants in Southern Alberta, and will need to have management with competitive determination. The sales staff will need to be people with no connection to our old ways of doing business, and will need the support of policy and legislation implemented by politicians listening to people who don't bow to the multinational driven USDA.

I hear arguement about the USA being the largest beef importer, and Canada needing the USA if they hope to export beef.
#1 We don't export beef. Cargil and Tyson do.
#2 Our actual tonnage of export would not feed any more people than the population of Canada. Pitince. When will someone put that into perspctive. Asia is catching up to North America with numbers of people being able to afford a nice steak. Other parts of the world are even further ahead. We produce a product unrivaled in the world, and our salesmen should simply be fired.

I agree that this is not an overnight solution, however I kick myself for not being enlightened about all of this one year ago. Mind you the hurt we all feel from being kicked again and again by the packers may have led to complacency, had the border opened sooner. Day after day Cargil and Tyson, and to a certain extent, every other packer in Canada overlooks any opportunity to find a solution and work with the producers. Rather, they keep up the boots and even play some kind of good guy role with some feedlot operators who feel the only way out is to kiss their ass.

I don't think we will ever get rid of these pirates, but I dream of a day when producers have an option and choose it.
A day when Cargil has a tough time sourcing cattle from feeders who decided to stand up for themselves and sold to their own producer funded plant.
A day when Cargil and Tyson give up, and take all the money they made in 2004 home, while offering up the plants in Brooks and High River to the next in a series of Canadian producer funded initiatives.

I also dream of nice little black Galloway cows taking a major role in the Canadian beef industry. LOL wilson.

[BFW]

I thought that this site was a forum to exchange views and offer information, not one to share misery, wallow in self pity and find someone to blame for our problems. All I hear is how weak the leaders of our organizations are, how the packers are raping us and won't work with us, how the feeders kiss the packers ass and how the "grassroots" producer is going to save the day by building check-off funded producer owned packing plants. Guys, what color is the sky in your world?! Check-off doesn't raise enough money to service existing industry needs let alone build a packing plant able to compete with the likes of a Cargill or Tyson. Your efforts as grassroots producers will be much more effective if they are aimed at government to let them know just how serious our situation is and why extraordinary action must be taken. Get ABP and CCA on the phone and tell them to get their heads out of their asses, don't wait for fall meetings and elections. Get out and figure out how 60 cent calves and fats plus CAISP payments are going to pay the bills because that is the reality that we all are going to have to face. Our governments whether federal or provincial are not going to intervene on industries behalf, instead they will continue to provide false hpoe that the border will soon be open. We must try hard not to let our emotions rule us as we try to steer our families and businesses through this disaster. The sun will come up and we must take measures (realistic ones) to ensure that we are still in the game when it does. End of rant.

[cakadu]

CMR - welcome to the site. It is always great to see new people getting involved in the various threads.

I have to agree with rpkaiser on the issue of all these packing plants starting up. Each is looking in excess of $10 million to build, run and maintain each of these plants. What needs to happen is a solid plan - that will be economically sustainable and viable into the future - be developed as a working model for any producer owned plant. Once the "bugs" have been worked out, then other plants could be built using some or all of the existing plants knowledge that has been gained and that experience has shown will/can/should work.

While all of these proposed plants are noble ideas and should be applauded, reality says that all will not become viable and sustainable for the long term. Once again, working together for the common good is being overlooked in favor of each doing it their own way. Many of the plants have common ideas -- bring all these people together and hammer out something that is agreeable to all for the most part and get moving on it. There needs to be a paradigm shift from being independent to one of being interdependent.

It seems to me that what is most critical is having the producer get his/her fair share of the value out of the marketplace for whatever it is that he/she is producing.

Just like the wheat board, there will be those that want the old system to work, once the border opens, if it ever does. Let those people operate in that system if they choose. There has never been a better time to start putting into practice new ideas and new ways of doing things.

[cakadu]

What is it that we are supposed to tell the ABP, and the CCA BFW. Beleive me, they have heard my voice and seen my letters all year long. Maybe you have some new things that we are supposed to tell them, or that we could support you with.
One man stood up at a BIG C meeting and talked of the $15.00 checkoff that Australia has. Could this not build a packing plant? If we could all agree on something of this magnitude, some government people are already talking loan guarantees to kick this thing off very very soon.

[CMR]

I agree with the check off, whatever it may be if it will get us gov. guarantees and get us rolling now. Because:
1.It will show the rest of the world, including the US, including our bankers that we are moving ahead and have a plan and are serious.
2. If everyone puts in dollars, then most everyone will tend to support it more instead of being complacent and letting everybody else put up the money and ideas.
3. Then it would be an "all" producers plant instead of a "some" producers plant with like you say rpkaiser big enough capacity to compete with the big dogs.
4. Maybe this would bring all producers together instead of lots of small plants, unless a few small plants had very niche markets.

[greybeard]

The debate about the plant being able to make a go of it seems to be a moot point to me .I recently saw an estimate of $500 as a current gross margin for boxing an animal. If you use $250 as an operating cost, that’s $25000 per 100 head left to work with. There is my money for the capital cost. I have lost it already. Why worry about losing it in the plant? It comes down to who do you trust with you money. I’m not saying the money is there to throw away, because I can’t operate long with packers taking $500 on an animal I have for over a year to get maybe $800. I already have over $2000 a head invested at home. If another $250 is what it takes to be profitable again, where do I line up?

[cowman]

Now let me get this right? Are you guys proposing we raise the checkoff to $15 to build a packing plant? Would you be willing to run for the ABP on the raise the checkoff ticket?
If so do the people paying the checkoff get to vote on raising it, or is this another mandatory raise? Who is paying the current checkoff and is it the same across the country? Are some regions paying any checkoff?
How is Saskatchewan or Manitoba going to come up with the "serious" loan guarantee money when their governments don't have two nickels to rub together? And I believe Ralph swore off getting into any sort of business..forever!?
In reality don't we really own XL anyway? They owed the Alberta government millions...or maybe that was forgave when Neilsons bought XL?
Ed Miller was one of the principal backers of the Price/Sunterra deal! So how come he's now saying we need to stick to Cargill/IBP? Is he a traitor? Or did he take a long hard look at the situation and realize the chances of a new plant suceeding are very poor?
I guess I'll get blasted for being negative, but I believe everyone should ask these questions before they committ any money. Just good business.

[blackjack]

cowman... you are right on the mark...most producers need to know where those dollars are going to be spent...is there not a big producer packing plant owned by actual cattle producers in the states ... what is their model and does it work... I to want know if it will work before I invest in a plant...

[cswilson]

Firstly my vision of the black galloway in Canada is more a black baldie gallowayX cow with some Angus bulls running with her. I don't think this new plant Big C is proposing would have to be totally check off funded I'm sure there are some off farm investors would put money in also. Cowman you'd be surprised what some little communities in Sask. have built with seed money from the locals.(West Central Pelleting-Wilkie for ex.) I realize we aren't the nirvarnah of Alberta with land appreciation and oil money but for a province that's short a few tax payers we can still get it done.