What does this mean???

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, if you are referring to the plans spoken about by the BIG-C group for a large plant in Saskatchewan there are a few points you need to know. This plant would be aimed at over 30 month cattle only hence would not be in competition with Cargill or Tyson. It seems obvious that "over thirty month" rules will apply for many years which will preclude these pirates from killing over and under 30 months animals in the same plant. A plant to kill cows would provide our most immediate requirement to reduce the cattle backlog building up. A plant east of Lloydminster would be a good geographic choice being central to the Alberta, BC, SK and Manitoba cow herds. There is no point putting it in Southern Alberta if you aren't killing fats from feedlot alley.
Early indications are that the Saskatchewan government is very willing to cooperate in seeing a plant set up in their province whereas the Alberta Gov. seems uninterested perhaps due to their ties (payoffs?) with the US packers. One concern to me would be the XL / Nilson response as I believe they are fond of running cartels also. If they run a policy of blackballing producers who send cull cows to a new plant instead of their one we might have a problem.

[cswilson]

You can survive in the cattle business without dealing with Nilson's-despite what they'd have you think.

[cowman]

Well I wasn't specifically referring to BIG C's plan but politics are politics? No way is Ralph going to chip in money for a Sask. plant? And while Saskatchewan might be awful supportive, the fact is they are broke and really don't have any money? In fact they are about 12 billion in the hole? Top that off with some of their goofier labor ideas, and I think you have a problem?
What is to stop Alberta from giving the likes of XL or maybe Sunterra a sweet heart deal to build a cow plant? After all, when all is said and done and despite the drought induced wreck here in Alberta, where are the largest number of cows located? And whats the big deal? Saskatchewan producers and those from Manitoba could ship them here as well as Alberta could shipping them to Sakatchewan?
Ralph Klein isn't some sort of idiot! He knows that if he is going to be able to sell the idea of Alberta putting major dollars into a packing plant, then it is going to be in Alberta! I would suggest maybe Lethbridge, where Nichols old riding is up for grabs?
I've always had a problem with this concept of a "big cow plant"! I doubt it could ever compete with the big efficient plants in the states...just like our old plants couldn't compete with the powerhouse Cargill/IBP/Conagra plants. XL used to be a major cow plant in Calgary but the new rules of the BSE game made them pick and choose? Maybe the time has come for Ralph to offer them a sweetheart deal on switching back over to cows? I believe with two cow plants XL Calgary and XL Moosejaw, as well as incentives for Cargill and IBP to increase the kill, we could probably get them all killed until the border opened up?
And hopefully some of this garbage about testing gets resolved at the same time. Maybe we actually should be testing the older stuff? If XL Calgary was testing and so was XL Moosejaw then maybe we could put this whole stupid thing to bed?
Also, I might add, Nilson Bros. seem to have a rather bad reputation or something? All I can really say in regards to Nilson Bros. is they took one of my local auction marts(Burnt Lake in Red Deer) and turned it back into a top notch mart after it had become a complete joke when Sask. Pool had it! The manager(Glen Cross) doesn't let the order buyers screw you! If they are playing games trying to keep prices down he steps right in and starts buying! I think the locals really appreciate the job he's doing turning this dog around! Maybe that is just the man, but he's spending Nilsons money and they haven't gotten rid of him!

[cowman]

Sorry, the manager is Mel Glencross!

[nerves]

We haved to question how big of a plant is necessary. If you are have a slaughter plant that kills fats you will have pile of trim most will be fat. The industry uses this trim in cow and bull meat to add a little fat to the hamburger it will still be lean and you have also found a market for that trim. So if you have two plants in competion you may have a problem getting the product you need to add value to your product. Cows and bulls in a separate plant will make a poorer quality product and how and who do you market poor quality meat to. My feeling is that mid-sized plants reasonably close together to keep shipping down between the plants makes more sence. I don"t think that this bigger is better idea is feasable, in the real world.

[BFW]

The only ones playing games at Burnt Lake or in any of Nilssons markets is the them!

[grassfarmer]

I bought one batch of cows at Burnt Lake a couple of years ago and I wouldn't go back as a buyer. Glencross was blatently running everything up and if I spotted it I'm sure the professionals do to.

[grassfarmer]

One thing to remember about the Cow plant that BIG C has put it's support behind is that the bridge financing comes from the Federal Government. Certainly provincial government, whether Saskatchewan or Alberta would have some sort of involvement, but loan guarantees from the Feds would hopefully help with some CFIA hoops that would have to be jumped to allow testing of these cows.

[cswilson]

They wrote a book about a rancher that thought Nilson's were there for the rancher it was called 'GULLIBLE's TRAVEL'S'

[cowman]

nerves: Part of the problem is the USA decision that you can't kill cows and fats in the same plant? However in most situations the cow beef is deboned and leaves the plant in ton bins anyway to a further processor where they add the trim...usually from fats that were sent to them untrimmed by other plants. A classic example would be the Lucerne plant in Calgary? Or Caravel meats in Calgary? Lucerne buys the fats and breaks them down for Safeway. They buy cow beef and blend the two(trim and cow) for hamburger. Caravel does the same thing and at one time sold just about everything to MacDonalds and Wendys?
I suppose they could and would buy cow beef from a big plant just as well as a small one.
rpkaiser: If the feds will come up with the money then that very well might change the picture! And with a minority government who knows they might be anxious to mend some fences? I'd look for a site where the vote was fairly close and they stand a good chance of pulling it off next time?
Grassfarmer: I am sure Australia has some very quality beef...but that is not the market they are filling here? In fact it is "manufacturing beef"? Like the stuff at subway and the delis? It is a very lean product and totally suitable for that market?
Whether we like it or not the North American palate is conditioned to baby grain fed beef. That is the desired product for the majority. White fat, well trimmed and marbled and juicy. Montanas steakhouse chain tried the Australian steak and it was basically a disaster and they returned to the grain fed baby beef? I did have one of these steaks and I sent it back and had the chicken. If I'm paying $16 for a steak it sure better taste good!

[cowman]

When Nilsons took over the Burnt Lake Mart it was really going down hill fast. Sellers had lost confidence in the way Sask. pool was running it. Glencross came in and completely turned it around!
I don't think Glencross makes any bones about the fact he is bidding on cattle? I mean he stands right up by the ring in front of everyone and buys them? Afterall Nilsons are in the feedlot and slaughter business too? If you think he is bidding to high then why would you bid?
Is this some sort of conflict of interest or something? The mart at Innisfail does the same thing. Either Mark or Jack Daines will leave the auction stand and go sit in the crowd and buy cattle...and they don't try to hide that fact either?
Maybe I am naive or something but like I said(from a sellers perspective) Nilsons really turned that mart around and gave us a mart where you wouldn't get screwed...at least not more than normal! They also brought in a good yard staff instead of the gong show Sask. pool had in the back. Now at least your cattle don't come into the ring all beat up and wild as hell!

[nerves]

cowman that is my point, if you build a plant in another province and it is big cow plant, then you will also need access to a plant that kills fats. If that plant decides that you are making to much money they cut off your supply of trim. A big plant will then be forced to cut back on thier kill. This is why I think you need a co-op kind of set up and many mid-sized plants to share product, you don"t want to be held hostage by the big operators.