Canadians Fight Back

[kato]

If an American, or anyone comes and honestly gives me an honest offer for cattle that are priced in a real working marketplace, that is one thing.

I will appreciate his support as much as anyone's, and I will be glad to do business. I will even be glad to buy from him, if the occasion arises.

What I take offense to is when someone purposely drives down the price to get them for less, then tells me they are doing me a favour by buying them.

Some favour.

[kato]

Very well said Kato. Plain and simple.

[cswilson]

R-Calf hasn't realized the old hockey coach saying 'You can bullshit the fans-not the players.'

[BWC]

Great views , as alwats gang, Chinook is just 15 miles away from my house , and the Sears family has several lots in the immediate area, my son works for them. They do, now know whose cattle they are feeding , though at first everything was done by an independent broker. I dont believe that Pat Goggins would have any cattle on feed up here , as I know him very well. He is in fact the man,along with Leo McConnell that make the bullets for R-Calf to fire. Goggins is too busy controlling the feeder trade in the northwest U.S. I do know that Lloyd DeBruckyer and sons have a ton of cattle on feed in southern AB. and he is a director of R-Calf. I think that they are a very dangerous group, and thet certainly don't want Canadian cattle to cross that imaginary line. Just for fun go to their website and read about some of the things that they want to do to the cattle industry in the U.S.Like for example they really want to eliminate packer owned feeder and fat cattle from the marketplace. They are not a nice group but some things they want are'nt too far away from the subjects of the day in our country. I know that this might not be too popular, as a statement, ... shoot back low my legs are already wrecked.

[cowman]

Now I'm no expert on R-CALF but it seems to me they are standing up for the cow/calf guy? I mean is limiting packer ownership of feeders really a bad thing?
Why do the packers own feeders? Is it the fact there is a lot of money feeding cattle or is it a way to manipulate and control the market?
How about price discovery? How do you establish a price when no one knows what is being really paid and what the end profit is?
There is a fine line between "free enterprize" and Mafia like tactics. Is it wrong for a group to advocate for some fairness and equality in the system?
Also consider what R-calf says regarding imports? Why would they want them? The USA is the "show"...it is the ultimate top market! Yes Japan pays big bucks for beef but in reality is a very small market compared to the American beef market? Why would any producer group want cheap imports bringing down their price?
Consider our own country? We have an affluent society with disposable income. A high enough income that they could afford easily to spend more on food? Why do we let in cheap foreign imports? Yes, it is very good for the consumer...and perhaps for trade...but is it good for the producers here?
R-CALF got the bone in meat thing stopped...no question about that? In so doing they kept the beef price up in the USA? Make no mistake, they didn't do anything illegal here...they just insisted the USDA follow the rules! Was any other US group doing that? How about the NCBA? So who is working for the producer?
R-calf is also a big supporter of COOL. Is that so wrong? If you were buying meat in the supermarket would you like to know if it was raised in Canada or if it came from Uraguay or maybe Australia? Never forget the kangaroo meat that killed those kids in Washington came into the US through the back door, labelled as "Product of Canada"!
R-CALF has hurt us up here in a big way but they have not hurt the American cow/calf guy...check out the prices he's recieving for his calves and his cull cows! America truly does not need the Japanese market and in fact they don't need Canadian beef.

[BFW]

Cowman, try and have a look at the bigger picture. Sure the high price ranchers are receiving for their feeders in the US is great for them, but what they fail to realize is the effect they are having downstream from them. Packers are running at reduced capacity, feedlots the same and the consumer paying record prices for beef. Now, don't get me wrong I am happy to see consumers paying more for beef but don't equate this with record demand for beef in the USA. Beef production is significantly lower in the US, kill levels are lower, wholesale prices are dropping. Ultimately high prices cure high prices as consumers shift from beef in this case to competing proteins such as chicken and pork where supply can easily be ramped up to meet increase demand. The long term effects for the beef industry is a loss of market share to these other sectors as the domestic beef industry does not have the resources in the US to deliver product to the consumer at a price that will be competitive with other meats. Sure beef may be the preferred choice of consumers but at some point the cost and lack of product availability will come back to haunt them. Producers may be happy with the high prices but long term without the ability to import and export they will soon realize that they will be all grabbing for a piece of an ever shrinking pie.

[jensend]

cowman i agree with you that r-calf is not all bad and there are some good reasons for that organization to be there. the problem is they have learned well from the packers and their tactics are no less savory.

[jensend]

sorry, got distracted there by a phone call. i mean r-calf's tactics are no more savory and in the end this is going to bite them and maybe all american producers in the butt. their arguments to keep the border closed have been nothing more than outright lies to an ignorant audience. it has helped to keep our cattle out but it has also kept their cattle in. in the long run i think they will hurt american cattle industry. i hope we can do better than that.

[cowman]

BFW: That is how a true market works. Not one that is distorted by cheap imports from every Tom, Dick and Harry. If the demand drops then you either take the lower price to compete with pork or chicken...or you get out of the game?
What I was trying to say was this: Right now in America, the cow/calf guy is getting what he should be getting for his product! Why? Because in fact there is a supply problem! The garbage from Australia and Uruguay won't fill that supply problem!
Quality beef from Canada is gone...period! Therefore the quality beef can only come from the USA! And there isn't enough of it! And a group like R-Calf is insuring that supply side of the equation will remain?
And yes, people will quit eating beef and switch to chicken and pork...at one level? But the fact is beef steak is the "top price getter" and always will be? If I am a business executive making half a million a year, why would I care if I pay $22 for a T-bone instead of $19.95?
Why do we continue to view our product as hamburger? We have a top notch product that desrves a premium price!
Afterall you and I continue to pay "outrageous" prices for everything else we consume? Like John Deere, Chevrolet, Esso and Monsanto? So why is it so hard to understand if you raise the best product in the world you shouldn't be paid for it?

[kato]

We do raise the best product in the world.

Now our challenge is to be paid what it's worth, as well. If the border was open, we'd be receiving what it's really worth too, but the fact remains that it's not open.

Remember May 19, 2003? We were having a really really good year up until then. The market was going up, even with our cattle on the road south.

I wouldn't be in a big hurry to give R-Calf too much credit for the high prices they are getting down there. Heaven knows, they like to take more credit than they should without our help.

They like to take credit for the prices, but they forget to mention that America isn't exporting any more. That's got a lot to do with it, as well as the fact that they're current with their fats.

They're hurting us a lot more than they're helping the American market. Imagine what they're prices would be like if they still had export markets?

R-Calf also likes to ignore the fact that Americans are still getting as much if not more Canadian beef as before, only it's in boxes. (Our big problem is not enough boxes!) Their imports from other countries are up too.

R-Calf started out with the best of intentions, defending the little guy, and you have to admire that. But somehow it's evolved something else altogether.

If their leaders were so concerned about the small cattle producers, then what are they doing up here buying our calves, instead of buying American calves? I would suggest they are taking care of number one first. It all comes down to money. Pick up some 'tainted and diseased' bargain Canadian cattle, feed them cheap for 75 cents on the dollar, and when the border opens, and it will, cash in.

If these R-Calf leaders 'really' believed in the stuff they spout to the media about the border, they wouldn't be up here buying cattle. They know darn well the border will open. It's inevitable, regardless of what they tell their members.

As for how a real market works, it's getting hard to remember what a real market is, it's been so long.

[BFW]

Cowman:Clearly, free(true) markets are not being allowed to function in either the Canadian or American beef industries though as producers I am sure we would all prefer to be in the Americans shoes right now. We all (as cattle producers) rely on our ability to export our production either as beef or live cattle for our industry to be sucessful and therefore as traders we have to be pepared to compete for market share and in the commodity business which we are in, you ultimately have to compete on price. You mention the "garbage" from Australia and Uruguay. I don't know, but I suspect the quality of this product is pretty good and that is very competitively priced and that they can supply it in large quantities reliably. Do not under estimate the competition, it is very dangerous. I wish that this product was not being imported right now under the circumstances but it is though in much smaller quantities and what is keeping it from coming in larger quantities is the price of cows (and steers and heifers for that matter)in this country.
You also mentioned that it is only now that the American rancher is receiving fair value for his product. Do you mean to say that only in times of short supply do producers receive fair value for their production because if that is the case then we need to seriously examine the notion of supply management for the beef industry in North America. I wonder what RCALF would say to that?

[BFW]

Cowman: Sorry I ran out of room.Your mention of John Deere, Chevrolet etc. is interesting These are all brand names and differentiate themselves from their competitors in the marketplace in one fashion or another. This is where the beef industry in Canada is failing. We do not differentiate our product from Australian, New Zealand, American, Argentinian etc in the marketplace. We claim that we produce the best beef in the world but we mix it in generically with all the rest. I think that in Canada our consumers just naturally assume that they are purchasing Canadian beef when that may or may not be the case. The same goes for Canadian beef around the world and in particular the USA. If our beef is truly the best we should embrace the proposed country of origin labelling proposals and reap the rewards of having a superior product if in fact we truly do.

[grassfarmer]

Well said BFW, I always cringe when I read the claims on here that Canadian beef is the best in the world and that of all others is "garbage". I don't think by any means that Canadian beef is poor but to call it the best in the world without proof or evidence shows a disrespect and ignorance of our competitors which is a dangerous arrogance. We certainly have the advantage of clean water, fresh air, few diseases or pests and a food safety system that is very good. These are big advantages over many other countries and serve to partly counteract our high cost systems of production necessary because of our climate.
I laugh particularily when Australian beef is dissed on quality terms - much of the current research being done on marbling, tenderness etc is coming from Australia - with Americans and Canadians keen to buy their technology and expertise.

[kato]

It's all in the marketing. Just because a product is good, it won't just sell itself. Someone's got to promote it.

We need some of those marketing geniuses who managed to make the whole world think that they NEEDED a pet rock!

Imagine what minds like this could do if they really had something of value to sell?

[ALICIA]

If I was a Amarican- This is want I would do.
1. I know that a country that has a case of BSE can not import into my country for 7 years.
2. I would make plans to encrease my herd to take advantage of in increase in market price.
3. I already have 30 head of cows, that had 15 heifers.
4. I bred all my heifers this year.
5. In the spring my cow herd is 45 head.

If every rancher and farmer in the US keeps their heifer calfs, I'd say in no time at all they will met the deamand and meat prices in the store will go back down. With the price they are getting for their cattle way not come to Canada and buy up cheep cattle and feed them, we should be cutting our herds any way at any price, to get the numbers down, instead we have just increast our numbers and that is going to make our price even less for a even longer period of time.
Yes I know but, I sold a 1800 pound cow for $200.00. They can't get her twice, shes gone but not forgotten and pay back will come, I just have to wait.

6. In the six year I'd start to decrease my numbers, so as not to get burned when the boarder reopens.

But I don't live in the States and this is just a thought on want I would do if I did.