Impressive crops?

[cowman]

There are some pretty darned good crops out there! Hay, barley, peas and canola!
I wonder where it all will go? It almost seems(at least around here) that a lot of cowherds have just sort of vanished over the last couple of years!!! Not sure where to...maybe Saskatchewan or Manitoba? It also seems a lot of hog barns are closing down?
I think there is more grass and hay land being broken this year, from what I have seen and heard.
I wonder if we are now going to enter a period where there is a major shift into crops as opposed to livestock? Unfortunately this will swamp the market because our useless governments can't seem to get a system in place where we can export grain at a profit!
It is kind of sad when we can produce so much good pork, beef, grain and canola and no one wants it at a price that we can survive? Maybe we need to have an EU type policy where we concentrate on only supplying the Canadian market and keeping everything else out? You know the "food security" thing?
But then I guess that wouldn't work either because we are such a tiny part of the Canadian population and your average Canadian expects cheap safe food so they can enjoy the SUV, the RV, the $200,000 home, the Caribean vacation, all the high tech toys! Food? What is that? If you dumb yokels can't supply it at firesale prices...we'll bring it in from somewhere that can!

[rsomer]

Where will it all go? Well I expect the hay will come out here as all the hay crops in this part of the province were a failure. I do not see a shift from livestock into crops in this area, that is for sure. It will still be necessary to add value to grains on the prairies and livestock production is certainly the most likely way this will happen. I would expect to see continued expansion of livestock in Saskatchewan. We need to remember that our present problems in livestock are only short term.

Yes a lot of crops do look very good. We are still looking for it to keep on raining as subsoil moisture is nonexistent and this heat will soon have us wondering where the rain went. We need to get through all of July before I can start looking for how much grain might be going into the bins as a few hot days with no moisture can sure cook things. If you are worried about prices going in the tank that will depend upon growing conditions in a much wider area than we can see driving down the road. Conditions in the U.S., Brazil, Australia all affect our grain prices more than our local crops do. We are very fortunate to have what growth there has been this summer, it is saving us from a very bad wreck with no markets for cattle sold due to drought.

I do not think we want to go the way of the EU. And there are a lot of American producers who are supporting protectionist policies that would see the U.S. keep everything else out too, our cattle included. And like the EU, they would like to keep on exporting to other countries at the same time as they propose operating in a protected market. Stopping trade is like trying to stop the tide, very hard to do. We will need to continue to be competitive globally if we want to have a long term viable industry. I think Canada can be competitive with our combination of climate, land and people although that is not to say there will not be challenges.

[cswilson]

Just did a 600 mile circle yesterday packing kids to rodeos and didn't see a real poor crop that I can remember-nice to see for a change.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, where did you get the idea that the EU supplies it's own market and keeps out imports? That is certainly not the case as they import lamb from Australasia, beef from S. America, grain from the former Soviet bloc and fruit and vegetables from all over. The fact they don't want the beef from N.American feedlots that is pumped full of hormones does not mean they don't import ag products.
The problem with Canada deciding to supply only it's own citizens with food is presumably that we don't have enough of them to eat the volumes produced. With such a huge landbase we must as an industry look to export but, I feel as individuals, we could look to supplying our local consumers with regional, niche products for which there is huge demand and decent premiums(ie grassfed beef produced in the clean fresh pastures of Alberta with the Rockies as a backdrop - what an image that creates in the consumers mind!)

[BFW]

Grassfarmer, what makes you think that their is any sinificant demand for a grass fed product and how do you propose to satisfy any demand for it when you can only graze a few months of the year. Wake up, you're dreaming!

[cowman]

Rsomer: I guess I look at it from basically a barley point of view, as canola and barley are the two main crops here. I believe barley is basically a local market as not too many people enjoy getting screwed over by the CWB...malt excluded!
Grassfarmer: I just assumed Europe kind of took care of themselves as much as possible! Hey give me a break! I'm just an old country boy who only believes the stuff I hear in the western producer! We were always led to believe Europe sort of had a "closed shop"?

[cowman]

Oh by the way grassfarmer, I have some shirtail cousins who raise a basically grssfed organic beef operation around Eckville and they have done pretty well with it! Hovens?

[grassfarmer]

BFW, Cowman highlights the potential of this market when he mentions the Hovens at Eckville. I don't know them personally but have read, if I remember right, that they run a 200 cow herd and sell all their meat direct and actually have a waiting list to be able to order their meat. According to their website they charge $3.99 lb on lean ground, $8.99lb on eye of round and $25.99lb on tenderloin. I would suggest these are sustainable prices if you are bypassing the middlemen and selling direct.
I don't want everyone to be producing grassfed beef as it would limit my market but to dismiss any possibility of it being a market worth investigating sounds to me very much like the ABP, CBEF clowns telling us that there are no new markets in the world for our beef. You limit your potential by being narrowminded and refusing to look at new possibilities. If I harp on about grassfed beef it is because as an outsider looking in on the Alberta industry I see this as a huge area of potential with many consumers around the world that would be blown away with the quality of cattle it is possible to produce here with the clean air, cold winters and the Rockies as a backdrop. Unfotunately as far as I am concerned that advantage is wasted the moment you subject the cattle to the stress of ILOs and pump them full of hormones - for what? to try and be low cost commodity beef suppliers to a few US multinational corporations. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[BFW]

Grassfarmer, again I say wake-up! In Canada we are low cost, efficient producers of high quality grain fed beef. I guess as an industry we have been quality of following the path of least resistance when marketing our product (live cattle to the US) and now we are suffering the consequences. I agree with most people on this forum that we must expand our marketing efforts to more countries than just the US if we are to be successful in the future but to suggest that we will be competitive producing grass fed beef against Australia, New Zealand and South America is not only ludicrous, it is idiotic.

[cswilson]

BFW whats your problem if some producers have the initive and gumption to develop some niche markets for grass fed beef-there is definately a demand for such a product grown and raised right here in Canada-if you don't want to participate so be it. No one has ever suggested that Canada will abandon totally our mainstream production methods.

[BFW]

Cswilson and Grassfarmer,I have no problem with people trying new things or looking for opportunities that may improve their situation. What I object to is Grassfarmers comments that since this "grassfed" beef is not subjected to the stress of being placed in an ILO and not "filled with hormones" that it is somehow better than the traditional grain fed product. Science says that there is no difference and the EU pays penalties to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per year to keep North American product out if hormones have been used in the production process. If these people (Hovens) at Eckville are as successful as you claim it will be because they deliver a quality product, provide good service and are competively prices to a select group of consumers who believe that they are getting a better product when in fact scientific evidence will show that they are not.

[grassfarmer]

We had this debate a few weeks ago and when I asked the other party to come up with test results proving that grainfed beef tastes better,is better quality, healthier or more natural than grassfed beef they started throwing insults at me insisting I had no right to ask for proof. Can you point me to the science that shows these things BFW?
The argument that N.American hormone beef is safe because "science says so" is the same stupid argument we are having with all the bodies opposing testing for BSE currently. If by some miracle the Americans were able to bully the EU into accepting shipments of hormone treated beef tomorrow the European consumers would refuse to buy it. When will some people ever learn that the consumer is king - it is THEIR money we are wanting afterall.

[grassfarmer]

In your earlier thread BFW you implied that I was advocating producing grassfed beef cheaper than S.America, Australia etc when I clearly said I saw a place for Canadian grassfed beef in the "local" marketplace (ie Canada) In my opinion no grain fed cattle reared in an ILO can ever be considered either efficiently or cheaply produced - it is clearly the most expensive way to produce beef in terms of energy utilisation, water/soil pollution concerns and air quality concerns.

[grassfarmer]

I read a long time ago that the base, or carrier for the implants was more of a problem to the EU than the hormone itself. Of course, to present a foriegn substance into an animal requires some sort of anti something to deflect infection. A few years ago more basic slow release antibiotics were used, but other things have been having success lately. Slow release antibiotics would very likely change the immune system of any animal, as well as potentially affecting the animal that eats it. I do not agree with hormones as I think we are screwing with things that do not need to be screwed with, ie marbling etc., however an argument over antimicrobial immune response would definately be a place for discussion.

[BFW]

Grassman, if there is a significant marketplace developed for grass fed beef it will ultimately be filled by those most able to produce it the cheapest. We import from those countries already. As for the other, I never claimed that grass fed beef was less healthy, didn't taste as good, wasn't as tender etc. as grain fed beef and doubt that there is any scientific evidence available to support that either is better than the other. However I know that if I look hard enough I can find that cattle implanted with growth hormones produce beef that is now higher in levels of growth hormone than that of cattle receiving no treatment. Frankly, as a cattlefeeder I do not care whether I implant my cattle or not but will as long as my competitors do as I will be at a disadvantage of about $30.00-$50.00 per head if I chose not to use them and the market will not compensate me for hormone free in the volumes that I am producing. Anyway have at it. If producing grass fed beef will keep your business afloat I wish you all the best.