Doing things different?

[ALICIA]

Horse: You sound so noligable. Just tell me what I should do with my welfair cows and believe you me I will do it. But just remember if you like T-bone or serlion or even primrib, wonce the cows are gone, so is you producer of your top meat THE COW.

[cowman]

I don't think he was referring to your cows, Alicia.
In Alberta the crown owns vast amounts of land that they lease out to cattlemen. I has become sort of a sweetheart deal because the leasers get the surface rights revenue from this land. Now if there were absolutely no cows on this land the Alberta government would get that revenue which is in the many millions. So therefore these ranchers are actually being paid to run cows on this land. That is the "welfare" cows, Horse is referring to.

[Horse]

Thanks cowman I couldnt have said it any better. If the govmt would up the rent on crown land from 1.39 per A>U>M to the 20 to30 $ on deded land there would be a lot less cows around hence less calves and less cull cows so you see it boiles back to the govmt beeing a lot of the problem. What is the deal on crown land in other provinces besides alta.
Aliscia d sell or give away is more like it . If you figure out haw much you are loosing by keeping them it may well work out cheaper to give them away but then you have a land base to do something with whitch is also worth nothing hay 2 cents a # bly talk of 2$ and on it goes .

[bombay_43]

I too have welfare cows. I have several leases up in NE Alberta. I think you should have one as well, Horse!

There is one for sale approximately 20 miles North of Bonnyville. 3 quarters of treed lease! 2 dugouts. Needs new fence. Owner who is from central Alberta, has it for sale in the local paper. Only $50 thousand dollars. A sad fact that our government also allowed to happen years ago. The sale of leases! However,it is in prime oil and gas country, so maybe you could luck out on that prospect. Do keep in mind that only one third of the amount paid goes to the lease holder, and 2/3 is retained by the government.

Now you pay the lawyer to do the traditional title search and transfers etc. just like you do on deeded land. Then you take over the land taxes, just like on deeded land, the rent per acre, and the legal liabilities as well. (We were told one year to spray the thistles along the lake on ours. Our responsiblilty, although we only rent the grazing rights)

I have a letter from my insurance agent suggesting a $10 thousand dollar premium for fire fighting costs associated with forestry bombers fighting fires on similar properties. Oh yeah, the government stocking rate for these 3 quarters, is 25 animal unit/months, so watch you don't over graze it!

We turned this sweet deal down with not too much thought! I think you should jump at it horse! You and I have gotten into this debate before, and you refuse to see that not all lease holders have the sweet oil dollars that you keep implying.

The fact is, that this is one of the few ways, the government can "subsidize" our farmers without getting into free trade disputes. Maybe they should be giving agriculture users, more of these "sweet" opportunities!

Here is your chance to check it out first hand!

[cakadu]

Good to hear another perspective on the grazing lease bombay.

I will play devil's advocate > for a moment and ask what would happen if the government just took all that royalty money and put it in the coffers? Would they spend it any better? Would it feel better that someone else isn't getting it?

Along with the good, comes the bad, so not everything is as it seems.

[Horse]

Bombay it sounds like a prety fair gamble to me for 173$ per yr plus taxes of mabey 300$ and the use of 3 1/4s just 2 yr ago the govmt paid out 1920$ in acerage payments so that is about 5 yr rent free to sit and wait for the oil companys to show up with more money if you had to buy that land at say 25000/ and amortize it for 25 yr it would cost you over 7000$ per yr and taxes also so I think if I had the extra 7000 in my pocket instead of land payments and dont forget I can still sell the lease for what did you say 50,000.
Yes damit if that land was available a few yrs ago I do believe if we could trust the govmt not to do the right thing it would be a hell of a good investment. But you see the govmt has got people worried that they just may raise the rent or put the oil rev in thier pockets and that has freed up some land but the asking price is mostly pretty steep, If you come west of Ed I can fix you up with some deeded land for 100,000 per 1/4.

[ALICIA]

Horse- I am giving my cows away. Or almost I have a 6 yr old that I bought for $2100 plus $350 she weights 2100lbs more or less, lost her twin heifer calfs at birth so has just been eating free of charge. I turned down $200.00 dollars would you maybe give me a better offer, I believe she is BSE free but you can test her brain after slaughter to make sure.

[bombay_43]

Horse, I think that my chances in Las Vegas would be much better! Buying this lease, does not entitle you to use this land as you see fit! Our government gives you 2 years to have it fenced with an acceptable fence. (they come and check it) At that point you must put cattle on it (your own, not someone elses) but only the amount they determine is the correct carrying capacity for that lease.

For this lease, 25 AUM is the carrying capacity.

To calculate the number of months that your herd can graze the disposition (lease), divide the number of AUM’s for the disposition by the number of months you intend to graze.

Example: if you wanted to graze 20 cows on your new lease;
25AUM divided by 20 equals 1.25 months you could graze them

If you wanted to use your 50 thousand dollar lease for June, July, August and September, you could legally graze 6 cow/calf pairs on it for 4 months! Oh yeah, I forgot the taxes and the grazing fees! But you sure are right Horse, what a deal!

Jump right in there! MAYBE there will be oil activity, and MAYBE Las Vegas is still a higher rate of return!!


Incidentally, a cleared quarter in the Bonnyville/Cold Lake area, is selling from 80 to 100,000.00 as well. On deeded land I don't have to ask how many animal units I can put, or what to do with the land, and ALL oil and gas revenue is mine, not the governments!

[cowman]

Two sides to every issue, for sure. The fact is if we look at it from the taxpayers view, of the big picture, we are losing money! In a big way! Can't argue from that angle!
Perhaps the time has come to skid this land? Sell it at public auction? BUT pay out the leaseholder at fair market value?
Obviously the land bombay is talking about is a loser( the way it is currently run)? Let someone outright own it and we all might be amazed how someone could turn it around!

[tojo]

Maybe interesting for you to visit:

HTTP://www.farmcentre.com/english/cbc/index.htm?id=292