Doing things different?

[cowman]

I would assume with the BSE crisis and the drought before it that cattle producers would have got pretty lean and mean? And yet a lot didn't?
Overfed cows are still definitely around? Cows laying in top notch alphalfa hay!
By all reports, in the papers and cattle magazines, bull sales were just peachy with slightly lower prices but still pretty darned good! I have noticed lots of pens and pastures of long yearling bulls around, so maybe things weren't as good as reported? What are those bulls worth now?
My question is this: What have you done to try to minimize the negative flow of cash from your business? And are these "cuts" sustainable over the long haul or are they a short term necessity?
I think most people realize it isn't necessarily the most "efficient" farmer who will survive, but the one who has the deepest pockets(and is willing to dig in)? And I find that unfortunate because in a lot of cases the ones who are efficient are often the younger ones, who had to actually make a profit! While the old boys with the big bank accounts couldn't really care if they were running a real business or just having a playground for playing cowboy!

[kato]

Whether you want to call it " playing cowboy", or simply fortunate enough to have inherited a two million dollar family farm, you are right about the deep pockets. Every cattle producer in Canada is loosing money in spite of production and or sales techniques. Driving through central Alberta last week still showed very few "for sale" signs, or other signs of going broke.

Thank God for the rains across most of Western Canada this year! It look to me that most folks are still looking at this as something that will be fixed, and the meager profits that they were used to prior to BSE will soon return.
Surely equity is being lost every day, but 35 bushel canola crops locked in at $9.00 will help; as will off farm incomes and such. It looks pretty pathetic on paper cowman, but it is also just simply life. Simply decisions by individuals to forge their own ways through crisis. We can make all the suggestions we want to about quitting, or investing in plants for long term solutions, but individual circumstance will still dictate a persons action.
We can only hope that the packers arrogance will translate into some sort of support for producer owned, or at least Canadian owned, plants in the future.

[rsomer]

On our farm BSE has been another kick in the pants like the years of drought that came before it. We had adjusted our cash flows before BSE. We kept our calves this year and fed them out which was a strain on the cash situation as we had to do without the income that was normally there in the spring. FIDP and CAIS did provide much needed cash but that will disappear in the future as reference margins are lost.

In our area, it is normal practice for people to manage their operations to get through the tough years which are all too common here and people are handling BSE like drought or hail. That is to say that next year will be better rather than make major changes, just tighten the belt and hang on tight.

I would say a lot of the cash flow needed to get through BSE has come from government in one form or another. Without that money things would be really tight.

[kato]

We still don't know what CAIS will bring. Apparently, there is a new way to redo your past margins by using an accrual adjustment on them.

For anyone who has expanded in the last five years, this is supposed to increase your old margins. Problem is, they haven't got the forms out yet, (surprise, surprise) so I haven't sent my application in. Apparently if you apply, and then go back and monkey with the old margins, it will slow things down.

I don't know how much slower it can get.

[bombay_43]

No FIDP or CAIS payments came to my mailbox! I have heard that CAIS may be cancelled, as it is not working as they had thought. We did receive the $56/head on yearlings and the $ paid both provincially and federally for culls.

I would anticipate that those of us who were almost debt free, are now in hawk up to our ying yangs~! Ever notice that time sure flys when you have payments! Thank God for rain, and mastercard!

We got through, by selling stockpiled canola. Prices were favourable this spring, and last fall, and we had not sold our oilseed for several years.

I contemplated selling my old "ASS", but not too many people really want donkeys! (small joke there)

We do have an old full size Jenny, that we have had for 3 or 4 years. As near as we could figure, she was too old to get bred. (so we were told) Two weeks ago, she had a baby! We don't know who the father is, and I am thinking of selling my story to "Maury" or "Jerry Springer"! Possibilities are; miniature donkey, miniature horse, or a llama!

There may be money in this one!

[jensend]

i think there would be better money on the american networks if you could prove a close blood relationship between sire and jenny.

[kato]

I raise donkeys too. Before you laugh, realize that they are worth more than cows right now!

A good guard donkey is worth a bit of money right now too, a fact that really bugs my husband. LOL

He never thought the day would come when a donkey would be worth more than a cow, but it has come. Too bad it's because the cows went down, not because the donkeys went up.

Look back on the calendar. Gestation is exactly a year, give or take a day or two to accomodate the donkey's need to do things when 'she' feels like it.

So I guess that means we've diversified eh?

[kato]

Check the ears...

are they small? horse

do they point up? min. donkey

do they point sideways? llama

I think the third one should be worth the big money, but if it's the other two you better give those little guys medals!

[cakadu]

Maybe the doing things differently comes in the way we look at farming. The time has possibly come when we have to start looking at farming as a business, no different from any other business in that if you don't make money, you don't survive.

We have been very slow to accept change in agriculture and I'm not talking new innovations in machinery, but rather the way farming is done. My observation is that we have worked for so long at "commoditizing" what we grow, that we as producers have not captured the true value in what we produce. We have grown more in an attempt to make more, but it really hasn't worked that well for us.

Even in the newer industries like berry production - it was all about getting the production going and not looking at what there might be for markets. Saskatoons are an example. We planted many thousands of trees which I understand can take 4 to 7 years to bear fruit to any degree. The production is now coming on stream and the problem is finding markets for all that production. There is room for only so many jam and jelly makers.

The silver lining to all of this is that it has made us more aware of capturing the value and some folks are out trying to do that and I hope they succeed. That is where the doing things different is going to come in. While it is slow to happen, the changes - once in place - will be of benefit to far more producers than the old ways of doing things.

We are in the midst of creating a new "normal" and hopefully it will be one that bodes much better for the producer.

[15444]

Cakadu:

Excellent point on looking for markets before the supply is there. I find myself asking why any producer goes out and creates more production to fill a space which is already filled....to make the final cost of the product even cheaper?

Your point about the Saskatoons is well taken as an example. I would suggest that Saskatoon growers target markets that are not being realized to their full potential or maybe not even noticed at all. An excellent exmaple of this would Northern Ontario. Wild Saskatoons do grow in this portion of the province, but the fruits are often hit with blight. This is a major disappointment as their are many people, including myself, who are great lovers of Saskatoons.

Safeway brought in their first-ever, frozen, Saskatoon pies into our local store earlier this spring. From what I heard, it sounded like the pies didn't stay on the shelfs for any length of time. And the pies were quite poor, as more of it was filler, rather then berries. I would think that a small co-op of Saskatoon producers could put out a much richer, filling pie (or other Saskatoon product) then a generic grocery store chain can.

In that sense, increased production is worthwhile. As long as the markets keep growing, then production is not far behind. It is when we produce more for a steady market (i.e. pre-BSE US), that we lose out.

[Horse]

As for playing cowboys that is what the govmt supports by handing out 100 mill per yr to lease holders , now mabey if farming was corsidered a business then the govmt would have to stop subsidizing those few and then there would be lots less cows in the market place.
We would all be better off if everyone had to play on the same field. That is except for those on the welfare cow list.

[Horse]

PS there will always be those that are better off than average be it inheratince or sitting on large resource base or views for development but we shouldnt have to try to compete with welfare cows and the govmt shouldnt be supporting them with our tax dollars.

[ALICIA]

Horse: You sound so noligable. Just tell me what I should do with my welfair cows and believe you me I will do it. But just remember if you like T-bone or serlion or even primrib, wonce the cows are gone, so is you producer of your top meat THE COW.

[cowman]

I don't think he was referring to your cows, Alicia.
In Alberta the crown owns vast amounts of land that they lease out to cattlemen. I has become sort of a sweetheart deal because the leasers get the surface rights revenue from this land. Now if there were absolutely no cows on this land the Alberta government would get that revenue which is in the many millions. So therefore these ranchers are actually being paid to run cows on this land. That is the "welfare" cows, Horse is referring to.

[Horse]

Thanks cowman I couldnt have said it any better. If the govmt would up the rent on crown land from 1.39 per A>U>M to the 20 to30 $ on deded land there would be a lot less cows around hence less calves and less cull cows so you see it boiles back to the govmt beeing a lot of the problem. What is the deal on crown land in other provinces besides alta.
Aliscia d sell or give away is more like it . If you figure out haw much you are loosing by keeping them it may well work out cheaper to give them away but then you have a land base to do something with whitch is also worth nothing hay 2 cents a # bly talk of 2$ and on it goes .