Amother Tid-bit

[blackjack]

rsomer... my first reaction to the packers would be take a hike especially if our checkoff dollars end up going to the packer...like you say it is time for members to stand up and tell the Sargents and the Laycrafts the status quo has to change... we need packer competition in Canada not more control by Lakeside and Cargill...maybe we need to change the structure of ABP in how the checkoff dollars will be spent...its all our money the ABP spend so lets find the way we all get the best bang for the buck...question rsomer ...who started the round table was it the cattle associations or the feds ... just curious...

[rsomer]

I need to make something clear. I do not think the problems in our industry lies with individual industry leaders, maybe partly with individual packers but not our industry leaders.

There are a lot of people working very hard to find solutions for our present crisis and it is important to take some time out to say thank you as it is often a thankless job especially in a time such as this when there are no easy answers. The BSE crisis is not the fault of the ABP or anyone else for that matter, including the packers although they are responsible for profiting from BSE. Still it falls to our organizations to find solutions and it is important that all producers participate in the process to ensure the solutions work for them. Now more than ever it is important that there is a dialogue between our industry leaders and producers so each understands where the other is coming from and that the industry is being shepherded in a direction that works for all. Change is going to happen, with the individuals input or without.

I did draw a caricature of a possible future for the Alberta beef industry if producers don’t start taking an interest in their own industry as others will direct their future for them if producers allow it to happen. My exaggerated vision of the future touched upon many issues such as packer ownership of cattle, health concerns, mega farms and foreign ownership. In Alberta the ABP is the producers voice on issues such as these. To recap my comments I said "...it is up to each and every producer to make the change happen. The days when we could sit back and just let things happen are long gone." If there was a criticism, it was directed at the individual who lets others decide their future, not the ABP or our industry leaders.

Sorry, I can’t help you with the origin of the Round Table or who makes the decisions. Apparently there are about 50 people involved including the packers.

[rsomer]

Cakadu: Since there are more questions than answers, I will ask another question. For the exchange of information to work do the packers need a vote on the Board of Directors?

[cakadu]

I would say that they wouldn't, but that is without knowing all the where's and why for's. If it is the Alberta Beef Producers, I'm not sure what the packing end of it has to do with production.

As far as the round table goes, it looks like those already involved in the various organizations like CCA, CBEF etc. are the ones that are coming to the table. It seems to me that if you keep going to the same well, you're going to get the same water. Yes, you need some of the seasoned people there, but you also need people that can see things with fresh eyes and not the same old same old.

Yes, the leadership role can be one that is thankless and sometimes we do need to take the time to stop and thank them. Having said that though, we do need to feel that they are hearing our concerns and doing something that will benefit us. If it is perceived that they are going ahead with whatever they had planned anyway, then it is fairly hard to be thankful for what they do.

My suggestion would be to take your delegates and your zone directors to task and get out to the meetings that they call so that your voices can be heard. Send a strong message to them about what your concerns are AND the solutions that you see to address those concerns. Try to remain calm as it is easier to be heard when you're calm - at least outwardly. Maybe this is the best time to take back your organizations and have them working to your best advantage.

[grassfarmer]

I feel the ABP should really be taken to task for their role in the beef fiasco of the last year. If I had my way there would be a huge turnout at every producer meeting this fall and the ABP would get a big shake up. The problem, as rsomer says, is producer motivation. Having been involved in the Ponoka BIG-C meeting it was dissapointing the low percentage of producers attending (the meeting had a large crowd but still not a high % of beef producers in Central Alberta). We should have had a couple of thousand at all these meetings. So how do we get a turnout at ABP meetings? I note that the delegate nominations close on Aug 31st which is our first "deadline" Given that no-one will have sold calves by then what hope is there that producers will be hurting enough to attend?
I am getting kind of disheartened at this lack of producer motivation and am starting to weigh how much time I should divert from my own business planning/ survival to try and motivate other producers to help themselves. Selfish maybe, but ultimately we each have to try and survive individually as well as an industry.
As Cam Ostercamp concludes his article
"...as it stands now we do nothing to resist" - how true.

[cakadu]

I wouldn't doubt that right now producer apathy is at an all time high for a number of reasons. I wouldn't feel too badly about producers not turning out for you BIG-C meeting grassfarmer as it is pretty hard during haying season to get away, even if it is in your best interests. There is such a short window of opportunity sometimes that one has to make hay while the sun shines or as was the case this year before the next shower hit.

Here's a wild and crazy idea. What if the ABP took even a fraction of the money spent on thanking consumers for sticking with beef through all of this and used it to really try and get producers out to meetings. They could even go so far as to have a third party, absolutely hands off facilitator for the meetings so that ideas are all out on the table and nothing is shut down. How would producers feel then, if they knew that they would at least be heard and have their ideas put down on paper so that their various representatives would have a written record of what it is they wanted?

Has anything like this ever been tried before? Maybe now is the time so that the ABP and producers win. What have they got to loose?

[grassfarmer]

With due respect, haying was not a factor in the Ponoka BIG-C meeting - pure apathy was. For every person I knew that attended from my area I could name 4 or 5 others that have made time to go camping numerous times this summer. They are either not hurting that bad or are in denial.
Don't get me wrong 6-700 is still a fair turnout at an agricultural meeting but compared to the thousands affected in the area we were covering it was not as good a turnout as it could have been. If we really had the vast majority of producers attending these events the Government would have to listen to this new voice instead of to the ABP our "elected" voice.

[cakadu]

Well, look at it this way, better to have had the number that you did that were keen and interested than many more who were less than enthusiastic. It is always disappointing when you expect more, particularly when you know so many are affected.

You may very well be right - the stakes just haven't gotten high enough for some people. We've developed such a "next year will be better" mentality that I think some just hang on, tie yet another knot in the end of the rope and hope for the best. For some, maybe the camping is a release from all of this and certainly more than one contributor to these forums have stated that they see the wisdom in spending time with their families and not working quite so hard to get no where fast. I'm not making excuses for them, it's just that there may be other priorities right now.

As for how much effort one expends, that depends on how much you have to give. It seems that there are always a core group who are fired up to get things done and they do. Once the real work is done, then of course others come along when they start to see and believe that there just might be some success.

Maybe you can only do what you can do for yourself and let others do the same. If they don't get the results that they want, then they don't have anyone to blame but themselves. Its sort of like an election - if you don't vote, then you don't have any right to complain about how things are going.

[cowman]

Now I don't want to rain on anybodys parade but I suspect a whole lot of people are really considering bailing? Perhaps that might be the reason for poor turnouts? Is there actually one person in the cattle business who hasn't considered it?
Lets not forget the average age of our producers, and lets not forget the financial makeup of these same producers? The older guys usually have some money and they don't really see this thing turning around tommorrow? Why keep pounding sand down a gopher hole, sort of thing?
If the government sets up a tax scheme(as they've hinted they might do) that allows farmers to average out the money, look for a huge exodus from the cow/calf industry this fall! Or maybe even if they don't! Perhaps the banks will make that decision for a lot of people?
Which is probably a good thing as it will open the door to a lot of younger, more dedicated guys to expand and catch the next wave?

[grassfarmer]

As I said cowman, haying was NOT a factor in the Ponoka meeting - it rained very heavy everywhere in the two days beforehand and felt more like November than July - I think it was 11C that evening with a strong wind.
I still think it is apathy.

[rsomer]

Cowman: I can honestly say I haven't considered bailing, not even for a moment. So there is at least one.

[grassfarmer]

Oh you meant bailing not baling, cowman.
Oops!!
I'm with rsomer - why would you want to bail out? yeah we have problems but it's still the best job in the world - in my mind.

[rusty1]

Without reading the whole thread - I do have to disagree with something rsomer says near the top. Opening the border may not be a long range solution either. I have in my hand a document that comes right out of a US packing room board room meeting memo. It clearly states that the only US packers thatw ant the border open are the ones that hold most of their interst in the North West. It also states that "1,000,000 head of live fat cattle and 140,000 head of feeders (2001) only represent 2 to 3 weeks of slaughter capacity" for them.

They really don't need us for anything.

So lets close our border from the north side, fix our own problem at home!

[ALICIA]

Talk about bailing Well this is want happened to me today. I've been thinking of onloading soom extra mouths. So on Sunday the cows where all at the barn and I have this seamy wild heifer, because as a calf she got pink eye and I called the vet to give her a shot of pen. in the eye lid to fix it, well the vet shot her in the eye ball (blind in that eye now.) So last fall she wouldn't come back in the barn till it was very cold, never got back out till spring. So any way on Sunday I thought I'm going to try to get that heifer in the barn. Opened barn door, tryed to get behind that heifer, she let out of there like a shot. I just stoped, turned around and said to my self forget it she isn't coming 500 feet near the barn or me. So I went to the other side of the barn to do soomthing, then went back to shut the door, and theirs the heifer in the barn, I shut the door real quick. Got you. Well I penned her up and thought that was easy I think I'll get the others I want gone. All in the barn in less then 10.
Sales Tuesday night. They'll be ready to go. Phoned Tuesday morning for sale barn to come and get 9 head and 1 wild heifer. Would the afternoon be oka. Sure. My Mistake. At 1.30 the sky opened up so bad that when the truck and trailer arrived, he couldn't get any were near the barn for the mud. So 9 head back with the herd, but for one wild heifer, she stays in the barn so I can try again next Tuesday night. I tell you. I can't get my hay done for the rain, now I can't get rid of the extra mouths for the rain. Grass is water logged, not much good, they have to have the hay for soom fiber to keep the digestion working right.

[ALICIA]

Its too bad because the heifer isn't that wild when you work on her good side as I found out when I put the halter on her to put the tag in her ear. She isn't that bad, if I don't get at least 400.00 for her, I may just have to bring her back home.
If I do I wonder how long before she comes back in the barn this winter, after a trip to the sale barn.