Any Business Would Do the Same?

[BFW]

Blackjack, it sounds like you think that that everything can be boiled down to big vs. small, corporate farm vs. family farm, north vs. south etc. Is that true. As for the big guys wanting the "small indepent backgrounder" gone, why would they? You keep cattle in the country (future feeder supply) at a price far cheaper than they want to do it for themselves anyway.

[BFW]

I guess we have two options. We could cut back on numbers,and deal with all of the ramifications that would bring in Canadian Agriculture, or face the reality of being a resource filled country, and try to deal with those resources ourselves, rather than let the American run, multinationals run it for us. It is far too late for the petrochemical industry, and besides, the mutinationals pay the Canadian pawns well enough that there is little need to complain (for now).

This beef industry stuff has not gone too far yet. I think there is potential both domestically and offshore, for Canadian owned companies to take back some of the multinational control. There will always be issues of size and numbers, and even issues of control. Hell the guy with 200 cows will have more confidence, and clout in the Auction Barn compared to the guy with 40 head.
This has gone far beyond size. This is about ethics, and responsibility. There are always options for individuals and companys, and in this case, Cargil and Tyson have taken the noncivil option of taking advantage of a devastating situation.
I don't really care what anybody on this site, or anyone in the industry does when time has settled this mess. But I will never forget the treatment these companies have administered to the suffering masses, and will always search for options in marketing for the rest of my career.

They only did what any other business would have done. Any business that does something like that to me once, does not get another chance. And that folks, is the nicest way this fellow can put it.

[grassfarmer]

BFW, I don't happen to agree that the US is or was the best paying market. Perhaps we were complacent at looking to new markets - the ABP certainly seems to be as they contend that there are no better paying markets in the world or they would already know about them. Well despite their flying around the world wining and dining at our expense other markets do exist. A case in point would be the Korean market for well fattened exotic cows developed by a woman from the Innisfail area. Her story has been read at some of the BIG-C meetings and I think a lot more should be made of this story. She basically spoke to potential customers and asked what they wanted and then provided it - simple good business. The Pacific rim countries are developing so fast there are millions of people who will be able to afford beef shortly and we should be looking to that market.

[rsomer]

Cakadu: Thousands of farmers buying and selling hay make a market. Two packers in collusion, acting as one in a captive market is a monopoly.

We are hanging onto the hope that the border will open because that is the surest way to regain much needed competition.

If this was the U.S. the executives of these two plants would be in jail by now. Normal business practice, I think not.

[cakadu]

Help me to understand how opening the border will increase competition when this packer monopoly that you speak of is the only game in town? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it the industry organizations that moved the industry into the system that was there pre-BSE? In some respects, blaming the packers seems a bit false when the entire system was geared towards using those 2 packers only. Where were the calls for more packers pre-BSE?

Are there really no other markets out there that are worth pursuing? Is the stumbling block one of having to give the customer what they want and up until now we've not really wanted to do that - just sell live cattle across the border because it's the easiest? It's also the way that the producer has lost the value in their products and left them ripe for the picking.

Seems to me that the net has to be cast a little wider if one is looking to allocate blame for the woes that are upon us right now. That same net should also be cast a lot wider when looking for solutions so that we are never put into this kind of a situation again.

[cowman]

Now excuse me if I am wrong but I thought we were really doing everything we could to expand our overseas markets, before BSE? Weren't we spending a lot of checkoff dollars(and taxpayers dollars) on beef export promotion. Seemed like everytime the ABP spoke up it was about Ted Haneys efforts to expand our markets?
And according to Haney we were making some progress? Were we getting good value for the money we spent?
How is it with all that promotion we still had only a miniscule part of the lucrative Japanese market while the US apparently still had the lions share?
I sometimes suspect "international trade" works more like the Mafia than real business? You might have a superior product, at a cheaper price, but the customer buys from the Mafia guy because he doesn't want to get beat up in a back alley!

[cowman]

rpkaiser: I found your comment"cut back our numbers and face all the agricultural ramifications" very interesting.
I too, wonder what would happen if the cattle industry basically fails and we go into decline? Lets face it, it was grain that got us in this mess in the first place? The lack of government support for our grain industry, pushed farmers into cattle and hogs? Really no other alternative...I mean what else can you do in a country where you can basically only grow small grains and grass?
So today our oversupply in cattle is a direct result of the government failing to step up to the plate and play hardball on the international grain wars? No money, too small of a population, were the excuses!
But lets suppose the cattle herd, in Canada, shrinks in a meaningful way? Where will all that feed grain go? Who wants it...who needs it?
In my area we can basically grow two things...canola and barley. Now the canola always seems to find a market but what about the darned barley? You can only make so much beer, right? And we have to rotate these two crops because of disease problems!
It looks like soon the CWB will be gone and the government loan guarantees to foreign buyers of our grain? How do you see things shaping up for the grain farmer if the cow herd shrinks?

[greybeard]

Well said rpkaiser.
A neilson rep called recently looking for 8 weight cattle. I was giving him some needles that the packers must need some more captive cattle to keep the plants going full steam. I said I planed on putting up lots of feed and delaying sales as long as possible hoping the border opens. His reply was “ he was afraid the American will come in and offer 3 or 4 cent more and our packers won’t be able to get any cattle”. This was obviously a scripted reply. I have seen the same line in some news releases.
They truly must think we are all stupid. Like “We screwed you over the best we could, but you shouldn’t stop selling to us because he Americans are worse”.
I don’t think I will sell to NB again if there are ANY choices. But where does that put us? A large part of our capacity will be these same pirates.

[greybeard]

The hay thig is true supply and demand. If 3 bales an acre I am happy to sell to my neighbor for $45 a bale. $135 an acre. If I get one bale an acre I will send it down the road for $1oo a bale and tell my neighbor I don't have any so he doesn't call me a thief. The one bale an acre means bale all day for 75 bales. Sometimes a lot less. Why should I do that and then sell them to my neighbor who knows she can buy hay cheaper than buying land and equipment to put it up herself.
One mans opinion.

[cakadu]

From what I could gather cowman with respect to the missions overseas to sell beef, it was from the perspective of "here's what we have to sell" not "what do you want to buy". There was still more interest in selling that beef in a box than truly getting down to what the potential customers wanted to buy.

Even today, there still seems to be too much watching and waiting for the US border to open. What about sending these missions to other countries to find out what they will need in order to buy beef?

If all we do is increase our packing capacity without finding new markets or gaining more of existing markets - excluding the US - then it seems to me we are not solving some of our underlying problem which is not having enough markets for the beef that we produce.

What about investment in the ability to value-add more to the beef here in Canada and ship those products? We still cling to the commodity side of things and the time for that has passed. We should be looking at what will bring us the most value.

[cakadu]

Fire Ted Haney....... Nuff said!

[cakadu]

Actually, firing Ted Haney would do no more than allow for someone else to come in and carry out the wishes of those that are directing the CBEF. Board governance usually implies that the board sets policy and staff carry it out.

Without changing the underlying policy and direction you really wouldn't be accomplishing much.