Time to revisit depopulation discussion

[ianben]

BSE distorts markets worldwide wherever it appears. It is no use bucking the system packers will buy as cheaply as possible and sell to the highest bidder.
With lots of fat cattle and the border closed you are over supplied and short on hooks.
It was the same here in UK but government did help more. We where paid supplement on fats sold which reduced to nil over time lasted 12months if I remember right.
All cattle over 30months ie all culls however old are still incinerated to this day and all recieve a government payment per head.
UK disposed of 6million animals during footand mouth lots of bullets and a big hole but again government funded.

You definatly have a supply problem with or without an open border, In my view opening the border will lower prices in US not raise prices in Canada so Bush will do that before the election?
ON an other point with boxed beef everything which does not go in the box has the same value as cull beef.
Packers margins might not look so rosy then.
Removing this low value beef from the market must be the answer.
Shoot the culls and get your Government to help!!!

[Joe-2]

Here's a novel idea.Maybe,instead of the govt. blaming farmers for not coughing up enough heads for them to test(Was it some Dunn character from the Ab. govt.?) perhaps the feds and the provinces should get together and offer up some cash in exchange for some heads to test. They expect us to pay the gut truck to come and pick up deads so that they can test them?? In their dreams!! I don't know how much "per head"(pun intended) would be agreeable to everyone but it seems to me that this would put some much needed cash into the hands of the cow/calf operators,supply them with some brains to test and achieve a reduction in cow numbers all at once.I'd worry about what to do with the rest of the carcass if they would shell out for the head.My culls will all catch a bullet at home before I will haul them to the stockyard and come out of it oweing money.
Almost sounds too simple to work don't it.

[grassfarmer]

Here is another simple solution - the Government get moving tomorrow and provide bridge financing to build the big cow plant BIG-C is advocating with the built in lab to test for BSE. The government get as many heads as they want plus we get bse free meat to offer to countries that might want it. Or is that too simple?? If Government put their minds to it this could be built in six months and ready to go.

[kato]

That's the problem...it's simple.

We're talking about government here... you know they hate simple. LOL

They prefer red tape, meetings, reports, studies, more meetings, discussions, and a few more meetings. And maybe an election so they don't have to actually do something.

[jensend]

the problem isn't that your solution is too simple (although many people see the logic and know that it would work). the problem is that people like the americans and the packers don't want that solution. things are working for them just fine as they are. they know the right people and have enough money to put their solution in place. the producers have a bigger investment in this industry than the packers and i think it's time we used our muscle. i didn't make it to the ssga meeting in moose jaw yesterday for a couple of reasons and i haven't heard if anything came out of it. i haven't renewed my membership but if the executive is taking the same old 'we know how things actually work so just leave it up to us' line my money will go to big-c.

[Cedar]

Grassfarmer: Further to your comments regarding longevity in our cows, I couldn't agree more. Some of our best cows that are still producing some of our best calves are "A"s and they were originally purchased at 11 years of age for the specific purpose of increasing longevity and other traits that need to not only be on-target to begin with but also need to be still apparent at an older age. Just imagine the improvements that could be made in our national herd if everyone focused on the importance of longevity in their cows!!! I'm not sure what the average age for culling currently is, nevertheless, whatever that age is right now, it needs to be increased! Imagine if we could help commercial producers to double the life of their cows??? In this current crazy marketplace, that would be a real boost to their bottom line, I should think!

[grassguy]

I've been enjoying your threads the last few months. Japan prefers the taste of U.S. beef because the U.S. buys more cars and toys than Canada.
Depopulate to a point that when and if these new plants come on line we do not have a 24 month backlog and a country full of desperate operaters who have no choice but to go to ibp or Cargill for an extra penny. Set a strike price where some go for it , their choice to stay in or bail out. Speaking commercially, I would bet $375-$400 would tip a lot of cows into a pit. Not too familiar with this testing Quota stuff, but I don't believe Alberta is killing any cows to speak of. They are all being killed at XL's Moose Jaw plant. Correct me if I'm wrong. No doubt we will rebuild no's as the market demands, being current is very important now. Bridge financing? Tax incentives? I like my old cows. Of a group of replacement heifers, we have about 10% left at 13 years old when we cull them. This year we have 14 year olds.

[InAHurry]

grassguy, your post: "Japan prefers the taste of U.S. beef because the U.S. buys more cars and toys than Canada" pretty much sums up why we can't be as competitive as the USA in the beef department - supporting your customer, like this, is a common occurance at every level(and type) of business. Yes, sometimes it is deviated from if price and/or quality can not be matched.

One only has to look at each country's population to see where one can expect a "return favor".

I have been against 100% testing from the beginning, but boy I am taking a 2nd look at it now - a signed, guaranteed contract that they would buy tested beef from us would be the only way I would support 100% testing.

[jensend]

exactly - if 100% testing will gain markets what's left to debate. i farm to sell my production - grain or livestock - and i don't see why we're standing here telling the world we refuse to sell them our beef or cattle. the essence of marketing is to provide a product the customer wants at a price that works both ways. why do we refuse to look at providing a tested product?

[grassfarmer]

Because the packer giants don't want it - and they seem to own (or control) the Government as well as our industry organisations like CCA and ABP.

[jensend]

and now it's hard for the producer reps on those boards to change position and keep their pride. the packer reps have had a great time bending these ranchers and feeders over.

[cowman]

If, and that is a big if, killing all cows born pre-1997 would get the borders open then we need to do that? No different than in 1993 we killed all UK imports to save the industry?
Also if testing all animals over 30 months would work then do it? Or even ALL cattle?
If those things would work then we would be some sort of idiots not to do them?
Unfortunately, I doubt they would work...I believe the "sound science" thing was always a crock right from the start. Just a convenient excuse to rip off the Canadian producer?
Personally I don't blame the American cattleman for doing everything in his power to keep the border closed or for that matter their politicians! I do blame our useless politicians up here for doing virtually nothing! Oh, hand out a pittance now and then so they look good, but nothing to get this thing turned around!
If the American based packers are the problem then get rid of them! The day they refused to open their books, should have been the day they got bought out and sent home! In the national interest...sort of thing?

[fredm]

Cowman I completely agree with you. We as Canadians allowed outside interests to dominate our industry. We as an industry have to take responsibility for our current situation. I also believe our government's agenda is not in our industry's best interest. There is going to be some serious fallout in terms of producers leaving the industry either on their own or with the bank's help. I don't know what the solution is, however, I do believe we are on our own and as tough as it appears there will be opportunities.