whiteface & 15444

[cowman]

I have to agree that a lot of that price discrimination goes out the window once that hereford steer becomes a yearling! But they really are ugly on those calves! It is so bad that no one who is selling calves should have straightbred hereford cattle?
I also agree they ruined the hereford cow when they went chasing the Chars and Sims. Bred all the milk and brains out of them?
People say you should never follow "fads"...which is fine but the fact is a lot of the so-called fads are where the money is? I know when I bought that first Char bull he put 70 lbs. on the calves and close to 10 cents a pound! The heifers hardly took a discount under the steers!
Now I'm not advocating a Char cow(although some of the first crosses were very good cows) so it is a challenge to keep a decent sized red cow herd! Now I know I should have gone black, but never did because the market discriminated against those gray calves. And I like seeing those big white bulls out there!
The charlais breed had a very good run for a long time, which tended to put a lot of really poor bulls out there? However I doubt there really is any breed that can grow and put on weight like a good char?
If your cows are big enough and you feed them right you won't have anymore calving trouble than most breeds. You need to be careful with some of the older breeds these days. In their chase for performance they have some really hard calving bulls! I would say the herefords are one of the worst but there are some big tough calving angus bulls too?
I remember years and years ago being at the Lacombe bull sale with my grandfather. We had five bulls up there and I was just a boy. This was in the herefords hayday when everybody wanted a whiteface bull! We were walking through the barns and there was one really good Shorthorn bull there. I told my grandfather that I thought that was about the best bull at the sale! He told me that I was probably right but that he wouldn't sell very well! He told me that Shorthorns were yesterdays cattle...no matter how good they were!
I would say right now herefords are definitely yesterdays cattle? And perhaps Simmentals too? And maybe even Charlais?
It seems everything has to be black these days if you want to ring the bell?

[whiteface]

Every breed has gone black except the hereford, if we had they would "black baldies" and we'd rule the roost once again! I know where you're comeing from cowman, I really like some of those great whites too, and I model a lot of my herefords to excel in the same traits, hence the reason I've been able to "change the minds" of some Char/simm guys.
CSwilson, that was hilarious! Made my day! Thanks.
Alicia, yours too, I can sure relate. I haven't been on a horse 5 times since my son was born and while I think a lot of times I miss riding, I often think, young horse, hasn't been rode much, fat old mom on the horse, this could be a disaster, like me getting hurt, too old to be getting hurt anymore! Still like those spotted horses, my son talks about being a "cowboy" ( to his fathers horror!) and maybe we'll look seriously into getting mom and son a couple new "spotted" horses.

[15444]

Well, there is the Black Polled Hereford Association down in the US. But, luckily, the American Hereford Association wasn't stupid enough to register the damn things like they did with Perfection and Ankony Midas.

Yes, selling straightbred Hereford calves is a real doozer at the sale barn. But for most Hereford guys I know, there is more pride in selling a good-looking straightbred Hereford then chasing the fads any day.

[InAHurry]

Alicia & whiteface: Glad you like the painted ones! We run a small breeding herd, mares are APHA, AQHA & TB with foals sired by a Paint stallion. If you would like to have a look at them http://www.painthorses.ca

I have heard of the Thnderbird breeders you mentioned, but have never been to their sale. We use to have PMU folks bring their suckling colts to a fall sale here. I believe a couple of outfits were still taking foals to Lethbridge in the past few years.

I think things are lining up nicely for the open house, thanks again for the tips.

cswilson, with that many heifers to work, sounds like you might need a few more good Paints to ride! I sure didn't envy your job of A.I.'ing that many - you must have a darn good crew and a strong arm!!

[cswilson]

Wellmy A.I crew is my kids most of the time-got a neat picture of Tyler when he's 5 years old catching his horse at 4'00 A'M to go heat detect. As to horses we all know a good one is never the wrong colour lol. I tell you what that day I did 147 heifers in the rain was a bit long lol. It's funny when were traveling and we go by a herd of cows my kids automatically are checking for heats lol.

[cowman]

I do believe that cattle buyers are fairly adept at knowing what they want and have a pretty good idea about what made that animal black? They want a high percentage of angus in them?
I know a black baldie is a good cow(providing she came from good stuff). It always amazes me though that a color rules the day! How is a red baldie any different? Surely those same astute cattle buyers can pick out the amount of angus in a red baldie?
The cows I have are basically red baldies(with a small percentage of Sim thrown in). Haven't bought a "cow bull" in I don't know how many years! A.I. to top American red angus bulls to get my maternal bulls. Actually have gone to A.I. for the char cross bulls too! Well quit that a couple of years ago when we started to plan to disperse. Just running out the clock, now.
But I sure enjoyed raising those bull calves. Never pushed them and let them grow out naturally. The first year they basically don't do much. They get the job done in year two and year three and then out they go(no exceptions...I always believe no matter how good a bull is the next one is better!). Don't ever tolerate wildness or meaness or any kind of bad behavior. All have good feet and are ready, willing and able!
It has worked very well for me and it has saved me tons of money! My weights have held fairly consistent and I have a quiet high performing cow herd that fits into with what I want.
Here is a very quick breakdown of the cost of a bull(pre-BSE)!
Bull calf in November- 750 lb.@ $1.20= $900
wintering costs first year $250
pasture $100
wintering costs 2nd year $250
pasture $150
wintering costs 3rd year $250
pasture $100

total cost $2000
3 year old bull at 2000 lb.X .70 = $1400
Net cost of bull $600

In comparison if I bought a comparable value yearling bull at $2500
The total feed costs would be the same less the first years winter feed. $850.
So a total cost for the bull of $3350.
$3350-$1400= $1950 is the net bull cost!
Which means $1350 in my pocket to spend on frivolous things!
Anywhere along the line I can skid a bull if anything is going wrong, and I won't be losing very much. Because I'm not pushing them as young cattle, so they will look good, they tend to be very good on their feet and have very high libidos!
Definitely not for everyone but it worked very well for me.

[cswilson]

Raise alot of my own bulls too-I know which cows work for me so use sons off them for cleanup-I'm almost too point of collecting some homeraised calves for a.i.

[ALICIA]

I was looking at elm-Lodge&wilgor sale and I see that star lake is selling the herefords that he bought last year.

[whiteface]

Can't get them across the border, although most of the cattle Montie bought elsewhere he is getting across in the form of semen and embryos from the live ones he bought. This might be one hell of an opportunity! A guy could say he bought an animal from Star Lake without having to pay a huge markup or go through the red tape of actually importing the animal from the U.S.!

[ALICIA]

Whiteface: I really wasn't imprest with what he bought. Plus he bought someone else's cattle and if I want to brag, I would make sure that he breed her and owned her or him.