Border lawsuit

[kato]

Let the games begin.

Someone up here has finally started thinking like an American, and the lawsuit has been launched.

What does everyone think? Will it make a difference?

Does anyone know any more about Chapter 11 of Nafta, and what it contains?

[15444]

Its based on the premise that North American countries cannot close their borders to saleable goods unless there is scientific evidence to suggest otherwise. (or so i think it goes).

I haven't read it yet, but I will begin searching for it now.

[GALAXIE500]

Well, it is about time that the ball started rolling on the border closure! I have been listening to qr77 from Calgary this morning and my hat is off to Rick Paskal and his group for taking some action on the beef crisis. This is an example of what should be going on in Saskatchewan and Manitoba as well. The more people we have against Uncle Sam and his protectionist politics the more they just might take notice. Does anybody from the other provinces agree with me???

Thanks fellas

[rusty1]

I was at the press conference this morning. I would suggest that you join them. No need to reinvent the wheel from Sask or Mb.

[kato]

We don't have the funds for the lawyers anyway. Are there any details about how this is to get bigger? They say they want other cattle producers to file suits, but do they say how?

It just may be that this is the only way to get some 'real' attention. We all know how much Americans love their courts and lawsuits.

Besides, the only way to get attention from down south is to cost them money. That's the bottom line. It always has been. So far we haven't cost them a cent, we've just made them richer. There's been no reason to listen to us up 'till now.

[cakadu]

The real way to start getting their attention is to start shutting off a few taps i.e. water, oil, gas. We've tried to take the high road and I advocate doing that, but I have to ask where that has gotten us?

On the other hand, what will shutting off taps get us?

Lawsuits take years and years to settle in some cases and those with the deepest pockets win out.

[pandiana]

Regardless of whether the border opens or not, this group will pursue the lawsuit in order to recoup their losses because of unfair trade within NAFTA. This is an important aspect as, previously pointed out, lawsuits could take forever and they have deeper pockets. Asking for retribution would hopefully help pay the costs and get the attention of the Americans. The US may just hustle up some lawyers to have a closer look at the agreement they signed. According the the Canadian group's lawyer, the Canadians have a 'very strong case'. It would be a good idea to get as many on board as possible, but I agree that not too many primary producers will have money to play with, especially after puting up the extra feed for fall.

[ALICIA]

Yes but if we all put up some money towards a joint law suit, in the end when we win, it is a beenifit to us all. and the losser has to pay back our costs plus the money that we have lost etc.

[kato]

I don't know if I was hearing it correctly or not, but last night on the news they asked an 'expert' about his opinion on the chances of success. He said basically that it was the right lawsuit, but the wrong plaintiffs.

In a roundabout way, I think he meant that it was the government's place to lauch the lawsuit, and if it did so, it would have a better shot.

Then they asked Ted Haney (I think..correct me if I'm wrong there), and he said the government and all the producer organizations were 'looking very closely at this...this week', with the emphasis on this week.

Perhaps a bargaining tool has been found?

[pmckenna]

If we turn off the taps on other exports for a deal, then we have just lost sovereignty, in my humble opinion. That would leave us being a perpetual pre-negotiated subcontractor. The farming colony. We already dislike Ottawa for that prepostrous attitude, how will it be better to make the same bad deal with USA, and for all of Canada as well? An American would say so himself. In many ways we already are are and have been. But to formalize that, no. NAFTA now gives us separation in markets. We need to find our strength in each separate market. From a political posture, though, we matter more to USA than R-CaLF.

[pandiana]

I am not sure I follow, pmckenna, how we would lose sovereignty by playing other cards in our hand. Could you expand a little?

[ALICIA]

up around Toronto they have a 417 that is a express line that is toll. Guess want it is owned by Spain. Spain wants to put the toll up for using this high way, our goverment said know, Spain is putting a impargo on Canada because of this. Don't that just bet all.

[pmckenna]

The problem is, who would shut off what? I don't see Alberta saying no the oil revenues. Nor Quebec to hydroelectric revenues. That would leave the feds. At that level, some sort of "tied selling" commodity deal with US would evolve , and formally, not informally. That constitutes an international agreement, would not be NAFTA, and would probably replace NAFTA. And would take just as long as NAFTA did to negotiate (years). Tied selling (like the banks wanted to do with insurance) would create market distortion of unimaginable proportion. And it would not be so easy to get out of when it works against us.
US would be able to manage us more effectively as a resource colony, than they can even now. I'd call that a loss in sovereignty. That's just how I'd see it going, anyhow. With regard to Spain, I doubt they have much to lose in other trade with Ontario. I'd like to see them try that with one of their EU trading partners.

[cowman]

pmckenna: I totally agree with you on not tying other trade goods to beef. Looking at the big picture, beef is literally a pittance in the overall value of goods that pass both ways across the border.
It is all very well to say shut off the gas and oil, shut off the electricity! Not very smart however? What do people think is paying the bills right now(including the cow welfare)? In Alberta our whole economy depends on that revenue...and probably will for as long as any of us are alive?
The whole problem is our useless federal government didn't stand up and insist that the US government live up to the NAFTA rules? Instead they chose to go hat in hand, like a bloody beggar, to Washington and hope the Americans would give us a break! It should be our federal government taking the USA to court...not a bunch of old cowboys!
What have they done? Virtually nothing.
Today what are they doing? More of the same?
Obviously this whole thing is a massive load of political garbage that our government has not handled very well? How about fighting back? Take out full page ads in all the American newspapers explaining the facts...we actually have a safer product than the American product. The American consumer is getting ripped off. The American taxpayer is also getting ripped off. We are about the only country in the world that doesn't hate you...so try treating us like a friend instead of an enemy!
When all is said and done, we have no one to blame for our problems but our incompetent government...which in fact is ourselves! Obviously farmers rate somewhere below just about every other thing in this country? If our own people couldn't care less why should the Americans?