Just how big are your cows?

[cswilson]

It's allhow you do the numbers anyways-does a Feb. born creep fed calf off a 1500 lbs cow make u more money than a later calf off a smaller cow. I used to weigh all our calves and select on WW-now we wean at 4 months or so -so it's kind of meaningless as we retain ownership on all our calves to finish. RP these two guys might have some galloways for u-Newton@236-3815 or George at 236-5085(these steers are at Highland Feeders)

[cswilson]

It's allhow you do the numbers anyways-does a Feb. born creep fed calf off a 1500 lbs cow make u more money than a later calf off a smaller cow. I used to weigh all our calves and select on WW-now we wean at 4 months or so -so it's kind of meaningless as we retain ownership on all our calves to finish. RP these two guys might have some galloways for u-Newton@236-3815 or George at 236-5085(these steers are at Highland Feeders)

[cowman]

cswilson: It all depends on how you want to do it? At one time I would say you definitely could make a lot more money off that Feb. calf from the big cow! Especially if you were straight cow/calf and had no interest in backgrounding.
It seems that in the last dozen years or so a lot of the guys who specialized in backgrounding have gone? Perhaps that is because they either got too old or went on to better things, or couldn't/wouldn't compete with larger backgrounders?
I also suspect that with the trend in cow/calf to move to late spring calving and the demise of the heavy exotic cattle, that a lot of the profit went out of backgrounding?
For many people that mid winter calving worked very well. Especially the mixed farmer? No way has he got time to be messing around with cows when he's trying to get his crop in? You know how it is....trying to get the wheat in before a three day monsoon hits and a darned heifer picks that time to have some major trouble!
I never was a fan of creep feeding but you get those big exotic calves on a creep in the fall and do they ever rock and roll! When they hit the ring they just shine!

[kato]

We buy calves to background, and now that the trend is toward later calving, are finding those 4 weight calves a lot easier to find. We can buy 400 pound calves that are from the top of the bunch instead of 400 pound calves that are the laggers.

As for our own, we like to wean bigger calves. We don't creep feed. The big boys need to come off the cow and go on feed as soon as practical. No backgrounding at all, it only makes them more framey.

[cswilson]

I have some friends who run big Simmy cows then use Char. bulls on them-calve in late January-they made out like bandits for awhile-they started creeping those calves and the lot that was buying their calves saw the performance on feed start to slide so the premiums were gone. To me if your running big high milking cows creep feeding is absurd-unless your in a drought or something. To my mind a cow shouldn't weigh more than her steer calf will when he's finished.

[grassfarmer]

I like the grassfed mantra that says a grassfed steer should finish at 100lbs more than hid dams weight. One problem with selecting replacements from only your cows that wean over say 60% of their weight is that it is largely single trait selection. If you did it for a few years I suspect you would finish up with a real milky herd but one with many cows that couldn't maintain winter condition because they milked too hard. We need a more balanced approach and a stockmans eye to select replacements.
cswilson, what are Highland predicting cost of gain to be this winter? I haven't spoken to Bern since February.

[smcgrath76]

Interesting one. I see all kinds in my job. Big, small or in between cows can make and or lose money.
At home we looked at the cost of facilities, our management practices, our planned future management and our cows have gotten somewhat smaller. That 1200 to 1350 range is about right for us, as we graze nearly year round (300 days). We have only so many animal unit months on our place, so we have started calving later and weaning earlier. Trying to match cows to grass. Our cows typically are in the second trimester of pregnancy with no calf on them when they are turned out on winter grazing (native range) in NE AB. We have found smaller cows can maintain good condition and they breed like rabbits when they hit that fresh grass in the later spring. No swath or bale grazing yet. That is something we are playing with this winter, so we may never start a tractor in the winter again (other than to hopefully push snow in the yard).
For us it is risk/reward. Big early calves entail more risk for us with higher feed bills and more $ in facilities (as opposed to our 1916 built barn).
To each his own, and if you are making money (or at least losing little) you probably have a good system and the right size of cow.

[cswilson]

GrassFarmer I haven't asked for this year but the cattle we closed in June the total cost of gain was 70.94/cwt. These were all natural so no implants were used which probably raised cost a bit-we got $90 premium per head on grid so it kind of balanced out. They were our 3rd cut too so didn't do too bad.We keep cattle at Highland year around so not too worried but Bernie's COG cause he'll be competitive with anybody-I really like the service I get there. Some of these guys that background or feed cows just on a garanteed price per day are a recipe for disaster-they don't charge enough to keep themselves in business. Were thinking of taking on a bunch of cows to custom winter-I'd do it for cost of feed with no yardage-if I can feed them across my pastures that gives me a manure benefit that outweigh yardage.

[grassfarmer]

cswilson,I was kind of hoping to take some cows on like that this winter too but it seems everyone round here has lots of feed available which doesn't create a lot of demand plus there are too many of them winter calving which I don't fancy. Fair chance we will background all our calves instead and possibly put them into a custom feedlot in the spring. I can "buy" plenty manure from neighbours just by hiring the spreading team to move it. Not cheap but I prefer it to fertiliser as it adds so much back to depleted land. We ploughed 40tons/acre into land in 2001 and finally got the return this year - second year seeds that have produced 90 AUDs/acre under intensive grazing.

[cswilson]

Ohhh it's unbelievable the yield increases-if you can feed across your pastures there is never a need to reseed.

[cowman]

Grassfarmer: Just a few questions? How did your land get so depleted? And what type of soil is it? Will manure supply enough N?
Personally I've always found you get a whole lot more bang for your buck using chemical fertilizer? Well, I'm talking about on grainland or high producing hayland, not pasture. Chemical fertilizer seldom pays on pasture land unless it has high producing varieties, such as meadow brome or orchard grass.
Maybe I have a different attitude in that I believe high quality land should be used for growing grain crops and the poorer stuff is for cows. Somehow it is strange to me to see cows out grazing land that can grow that 100 bushel crop.

[cswilson]

Doesn't bother me a bit but just like you were never a cowboy I was never a plow jockey. Actually marginal land vs better land pencils pretty close when you figure every thing in. Mind you poor Alberta land brings more than best Saskatchewan.